EQ Freelance Forum

General Public => Upcoming Events & Strategy => Topic started by: Furro on February 02, 2016, 12:09:50 AM

Title: TBM - Plane of Health - T2 - Stem the Tide
Post by: Furro on February 02, 2016, 12:09:50 AM
Plane of Health - Stem the Tide


Zone & Instance Info

Gather Zone: Demiplane of Life
NPC Name: N/A
NPC Location: N/A
 
Keyword to Enter:Click crystal to enter Plane of Health instance.


Flag & Key Requirements

Mirror Fragment of Anashti Sul is required for this event.

Zone Flag: None
Event Key: Mirror Fragment of Anashti Sul
Group Mission/Task: Into the Temple
Event Flags: Greater Spirit Shield 16/16 Completed
 
* Minimum to be Piggy/85'/pushed into raid: Mirror Fragment of Anashti Sul.



Brief Event Overview

We begin by AE'ing trash to clear to the boss (Akkapan Adan).

After trash, we immediately engage Akkapan Adan.

Adds spawn at boss HP intervals: 88%, 76%, 64%, 52%, 40%, 28%, 16%, and 4%.  The boss cannot be killed unless all adds are dead.

Throughout the event we must deal with various AEs and emote mechanics as detailed in the Event Mechanics & Emotes section of this post.

Once all the adds and Akkapan Adan have been killed, the event is complete.


The remainder of this post focuses on strategy details and related areas of prep.  Please take the time to familarize yourself with these strategy details and prepare in advance by downloading and importing the related audio triggers and ensuring they are toggled on.  Further, please download the map file and test it in advance by going to Plane of Health (regular zone, non-instanced works) to ensure the positioning lines are correctly displayed.

If you have any questions, please reply to this thread and/or contact one of the FL Leads by PM via this forum or in-game /tell.  Thank you.


Event Mechanics & Emotes

There are several mechanics we need to deal with:

Boss Aggro Emote: You have been chosen for death by Akkapan Adan! <- RUN TO BOSS.  This avoids boss running amok, running through raid and MT chasing it needlessly.

Death Strike:

Totem - Embodiment of Decay:

Vortex of Tears:

Seperate Melee DPS trigger addon is included for this, because it really doesn't affect Casters/Healers, due to positioning.

Pulsing Fumes:


Strategy

This is a quick overview of the most critical aspects we need everyone to conform to.  Commit this to memory, read it each day before you go to work, read it when you get home from work, and read it before turning in for the night.  Log in to EQ, go to Plane of Health, practice/orient yourself with the map lines.  Also ensure your triggers are setup and toggled on.  Do this prep work so it's second nature when it comes time to hit this target.

Everyone

DPS

Enchanters & Bards

Add Tanks

Boss Main Tanks

Open your map, adjust it accordingly so you can glance at it to stay on course (red line on map).

Moving the boss is learned behavior.  It takes good judgement.  When a totem spawns for example, moving the boss widens the gap between the totem and you, which allows the raid to advance out of the totem AE.  I can illustrate this with a diagram if anyone needs, but here's a simple textual representation of totem/add situations requiring boss moves:

Totem situation:You -> Boss -> Totem AE ( raid in AE ).
After boss move:You -> Boss -> [ gap ] (raid not in AE, they advanced) -> Totem AE behind us.
 
Adds spawn:You -> Boss -> Adds ( raid in Boss AE Rampage ).
After boss move:You -> Boss -> [ gap ] (raid not in Boss AE Rampage during adds)

Note: If judging the distance to move is a big issue, I may be able to work out the correct distances and add map markers to the red line, and the MT could then move to each marker.

MT Hotkey aid for Aggro Emote (Pure Fury): [ Todo, waiting on response from Zak with better details, as I don't want to provide inaccurate instructions for this. ]


Paladins

Healers

Remember the primal rule: A B C = Always be casting.

Follow the blue line on the map.  There are four main scenerios where you have to adjust position:

Clerics:

Druids:

Shaman:


Positioning Details & Map File with Lines

We start North (top of map), and work our way down.

MT moves boss each time the following occurs:

Map file: pohealth_1.txt (http://www.eqfreelance.net/ssark/maps/TBM/stem/pohealth_1.txt)

Blue Line=>Casters/Healers
Red Line=>Boss Main Tank
Green Line=>Melee

Reminder: Everyone stay out of the yellow cone area marked "Active MT Only" please unless you are the current MT on boss.

(http://www.eqfreelance.net/images/tbm-stem-the-tide-time-adjust-animation.gif)


Add Waves

Everyone with spell damage AEs, have them in your line-up.  Any complimentary AE discs with long timers, save them for the bigger waves.

It's a 9-10 minute window from the start of our run engaging boss to end with adds at various stages.  Use your discs efficiently.  That means that short refresh discs should be used everytime they are available.  Do not save up all your discs for the very end.  It's more effective to always be using your abilities when they are up.  The only exception to this are long-refresh discs/AE discs, which we would prefer you use for the bigger sets of adds.

Never be on boss when adds are up.

Killing adds as quickly as possible is DPS priority #1.

HP%  AddsDPS
88%1  <- this should die before it even goes active.
76%3  All DPS, AE damage
64%5  All DPS, AE damage
52%5  All DPS, AE damage
40%7  All DPS, AE damage, Mag/Wiz any discs to augment AEs
28%7  All DPS, AE damage, Mag/Wiz any discs to augment AEs
16%11  All DPS, AE Dmg, Bers/Rogs AE discs (long timers)
4~%11  All DPS, AE Dmg, Bers/Rogs AE discs (long timers)


Text & Audio Triggers - Mandatory

Delete existing triggers for this event before importing new.  Expand the set and toggle on any sub-folders as appropriate.

Everyone - GINA File: tbm-plane-of-health-stem-the-tide-06-07-2016-1227pm.gtp (http://www.eqfreelance.net/ssark/triggers/TBM/tbm-plane-of-health-stem-the-tide-06-07-2016-1227pm.gtp) (updated 06-07-2016 (12:27pm))

Paladin Only - GINA File: tbm-plane-of-health-stem-the-tide-paladin-only-pulsing-fumes-06-06-2016-810pm.gtp (http://www.eqfreelance.net/ssark/triggers/TBM/tbm-plane-of-health-stem-the-tide-paladin-only-pulsing-fumes-06-06-2016-810pm.gtp) (added 06-06-2016 (8:10pm))

Melee DPS Only - GINA File: tbm-plane-of-health-stem-the-tide-melee-dps-only-vortex-ae-warning-06-06-2016-1131pm.gtp (http://www.eqfreelance.net/ssark/triggers/TBM/tbm-plane-of-health-stem-the-tide-melee-dps-only-vortex-ae-warning-06-06-2016-1131pm.gtp) (added 06-06-2016 (11:31pm))

Note: Paladin and Melee DPS trigger sets are addons only.  Those respective players need to also import the "Everyone" set as well.

Everyone set includes:
- Adds spawned
- Totem effect messages (1st person)
- Death Strike - Targets YOU - Run away from the raid - 10s warning.  AE DDs everyone around you.  Get curse cured before returning to the raid.
- Death Strike - Who was targeted.  For identifying who was targeted in event of emote failure by x person (ties in with buckle pattern trig for failues)
- Death Strike - Last person targeted FAILED the emote.  This is an aid trigger to help identify who is failing this emote resulting in extra AE damage taken.
- Pure Fury - Aggro emote - RUN TO BOSS.

Paladin set includes:
- Pulsing Fumes, early warning when to queue up splash and exactly when to cast splash.

Melee DPS set includes:
- Vortex cast overlay, 40s warns when down to 3s that it's about to cast.  It's a very short range AE (25') from boss.  As a melee, you can back away from boss a few steps, avoid it, then re-engage.  This can be helpful if you can't take AE Rampage + Vortex combination of damage, which can be significant together.


GINA Issues?  Help Below:

If you're new to GINA and/or having issues with importing/enabling our trigger files, please read Ssark's GINA Manual (http://eqfreelance.net/ssark/docs/GINA.pdf).  If you're still having issues after following Ssark's guide, reply to the Audio and Text Triggers Alternative - GINA (http://forums.eqfreelance.net/index.php?topic=2483.0) thread located in the Raiders Essentials section of our forums, and we'll work to resolve the issue(s).


Map Download

This is the same map file as linked earlier in the post.  It's helpful to have it here as well to ensure it stands out and allows for easier reference if we have to direct someone to download it.

Map file: pohealth_1.txt (http://www.eqfreelance.net/ssark/maps/TBM/stem/pohealth_1.txt)

Right click the file, and "Save As", or something similar depending on your browser.  Save the file in your Everquest maps folder.  Most commonly this is: C:\Program Files (x86)\Sony\EverQuest\maps

If prompted whether you want to overwrite the existing file (or something similar, depending on your operating system), click "Yes/OK".

You cannot update your map if you are in the zone that the map file is for.  In other words, don't be in Plane of Health when you save the map file.  Or you can do it while out of game.

If you have any questions/issues with the above map instructions, please re-read them and repeat the steps.  If you still have issues, reply to this thread and we'll try and assist.  Thanks.
Title: Re: TBM - Plane of Health - T2 - Stem the Tide
Post by: Zaknaffein on February 04, 2016, 09:23:41 PM
[ removed trigger set, there is an error in this set -- Pie Management ]

Based off one time I did this raid a while ago and the triggers I made for it above.

This one is all about positioning/moving accordingly and reacting to gina trigger, which is just more moving around. And the add waves.

Rat man spawns totem on people, dont stand in them/move boss out of them. Tank moves rat man in a circle preferably so we dont get too spread out.. casters dont be all spread out, bunch up somewhat ( in the middle of the circle perhaps )
Add waves get progressivley more adds each wave. Total of 6 add waves? something like 12ish? adds on the last wave which is at 2%?
When an add wave spawns, move boss away from the pile slightly.
Set tanks to ae/fort/flash whatever on the bigger add waves
3? types of adds, one type can be rooted (the knights?), another can be stunned(The mummys?), and a third can be mezzed (the rats?). Can kite if things get too hectic ( assuming ppl didnt damage it ), could ae dps but we suck at that.
Rat man will randomly summon someone and put them on top of hatelist, warrior just pop warlords, problem solved.

Again will edit/clean this up after we attempt this perhaps ~








Title: Re: TBM - Plane of Health - T2 - Stem the Tide
Post by: Kianara on February 06, 2016, 03:35:55 AM
According to tonight's attempts, here's observations on the adds (at least as far as spawns are concerned):

Spawn every 12%, increasing in numbers:

88% - 1 add
76% - 3 adds
64% - 5 adds
52% - 5 adds
40% - 7 adds
28% - 7 adds

Assuming the pattern holds, would be:
16%  - 9-11 adds
4% - 11 adds (not sure if they spawn this close to the end, assuming they do though)
Title: Re: TBM - Plane of Health - T2 - Stem the Tide
Post by: Padraigg on February 06, 2016, 01:07:06 PM
"Embodiment of Decay" was in buff window when standing too close to a totem.  Was on me not just when I was directly on top of the totem, but a good distance around the totem.

Got the following spell message:  Your skin burns and blisters

Did significant damage that we'll want to avoid and make a trigger for.
Title: Re: TBM - Plane of Health - T2 - Stem the Tide
Post by: Furro on February 06, 2016, 09:52:42 PM
Thanks Kianara for your earlier reply above.  I've updated the post to reflect the percentages.

Thanks Padraigg for the post.  I'm doing up a quick table, and a couple triggers for totem effect messages.
Title: Re: TBM - Plane of Health - T2 - Stem the Tide
Post by: Furro on February 06, 2016, 10:15:10 PM
Strategy Post Updated & Triggers Added

Updated the strategy post.  Please read it over before attending, thanks.

Delete the trigger set Zak provided and import the new set from the strategy post.  Ensure they are toggled on please as well.  New set includes additional totem triggers to alert when you are being hit by one of the effects and adjust position accordingly.
Title: Re: TBM - Plane of Health - T2 - Stem the Tide
Post by: Furro on February 06, 2016, 11:29:28 PM
Quote from: Furro on February 06, 2016, 10:15:10 PM
Strategy Post Updated & Triggers Added

Updated the strategy post.  Please read it over before attending, thanks.

Delete the trigger set Zak provided and import the new set from the strategy post.  Ensure they are toggled on please as well.  New set includes additional totem triggers to alert when you are being hit by one of the effects and adjust position accordingly.

Updated the trigger set again.  Thanks Minisca.  Fixed a missing comma in the Zak set, and Minisca made an Aggro related emote, added to package.

Delete old, import new, ensure toggled on, thanks.
Title: Re: TBM - Plane of Health - T2 - Stem the Tide
Post by: Kianara on February 06, 2016, 11:34:13 PM
There's also the visual cue when you're too close to a totem, screen goes pretty much greyscale .. when you're out of range coloring returns to normal.
Title: Re: TBM - Plane of Health - T2 - Stem the Tide
Post by: Maglor on February 07, 2016, 01:28:49 AM
Before we get to the boss, everything is stunable.

After we start the boss, I have a few observations, about the adds and a curse that is more easily curable than believed.

Looks like 7 adds is the max.  And there are 3 types of adds.

1 - A Pestilent (whatever).  Looks like the old Plane of Decay Death Knight.  Not Stunable or Mezable.
2 - Leacherous (whatever).  Looks like the old Plane of Decay caster.  Stunable with high resist.  Doubt if mezable.
3 - Bulbonian (whatever).  Looks lke the old Plane of Decay Bulbonian.  Mezable.  Some are stunable, others are not.

Also, Pulsing Fumes is cureable by a simple Pally Splash.  So get pallies to splash this away.  Much easier than running away to cure, though that is always an option.
Title: Re: TBM - Plane of Health - T2 - Stem the Tide
Post by: Furro on February 11, 2016, 11:06:41 PM
Defeated: Saturday, February 6, 2016

Triggers updated as well.
Title: Re: TBM - Plane of Health - T2 - Stem the Tide
Post by: Furro on March 05, 2016, 07:13:01 PM

Dimbly worked up a diagram describing positioning, shifts etc.  We worked this method last week with promising results.  There is another method we may explore going forward (parallel lines), but in the meantime we want to get this posted for clarity and reference.

Described below is written by Dimbly, I'm just reposting it and incorporating it into the strategy post:


The inner circle consists of the MTO/Melee.
The outer circle, marked in cerulean, consists of Casters/Healers.
The violet arrows indicate the direction to run when emoted to remove the dot.

We lay out 4 markers (ie fires) in the inner circle marked in orange. 

The big fat mouse is pulled to position 1. and tanked/dps'd/healed until such time as a totem randomly spawns on someone in either circle.  At such time the raid en masse moves counter-clockwise to position 2.  When a totem randomly spawns on someone in either circle the raid moves counter-clockwise to position 3. and then to 4. to 1. etc.

When adds spawn they should be mezzed/assisted/tanked in place.  MT moves BFM to the middle and Tanks it there or if the helter skelter kiting that we've been doing needs to be continued, it should be confined to a circle outside of the inner/outer circles near the next position.

When adds are dispatched, MT takes BFM to the next position and the rotation continues.

When players are emoted, they should run outward for 50 units and then run back to their group.

(http://eqfreelance.net/images/tbm_stem_the_tide_strat_map_cropped.jpg)
Title: Re: TBM - Plane of Health - T2 - Stem the Tide
Post by: Brenlaven on March 05, 2016, 07:56:22 PM
The run away dot (Death Strike per the writeup?) is curable. Drood group cure Copsetender's Breeze will remove it in one cast. There should be no need to run at all if you are in range of your group curer.

Other classes will have to look at what spells they can use to cure that dot but if there is a drood in my group I expect to be cured by the drood not by running around.

But if you do need to run you do not have to go halfway across the zone.  It has a 50' AE range so the guess is that you have to move 50' or so to remove it.  People run way to far to remove it! This spreads the raid out...groups are scattered all over so the group heeler can't even single target heel a group member because they ran so far away.

Other than the totem, all other dots seem curable as well either via group cure or RC (and maybe splash?). So leveraging cures with groups trying to clump around the curer should help organize this raid a bit more.

For groups with melee, it would help if the group heeler was closer to the boss rather than at the outer circle. This would allow for group cures as well as group heelz.  Not sure if that is implied or not...I am a SK not a heeler.
Title: Re: TBM - Plane of Health - T2 - Stem the Tide
Post by: Furro on March 10, 2016, 11:14:23 PM
Gimamam did up somem map locs for the four locations for tanking boss.

P -1275.6771, -2729.9236, -49.6967,  0, 0, 0,  3,  9_-_West
P -1127.5044, -2731.1431, -45.7619,  0, 0, 0,  3,  3_-_East
P -1198.9091, -2669.3826, -51.1259,  0, 0, 0,  3,  6_-_South
P -1204.8334, -2801.6125, -46.1299,  0, 0, 0,  3,  12_-_North

You can add these to pohealth_1.txt or something similar before loading EQ.
Title: Re: TBM - Plane of Health - T2 - Stem the Tide
Post by: Gimamam on March 15, 2016, 04:52:00 PM
there was some CFing going on last week. 

the reason for the fires is so that everyone has a location that is visible and available as a gather point and a mob parking lot.

If you are having trouble seeing the fires in game, there are a couple things that you can do.

play in third person - if nothing more than just for this fight.
put on particles enough that you can see the fire/smoke from the fires.
download the map locations above and keep your map open
the totems do not spawn that fast, you have plenty of time to line yourself up to the next fire and moonwalk or just beeline to it.

sk's and warriors i know both have positioning tools that will drag/push the mob in some fashion, use them. mob positioning and movement are huge on this fight.

i know there is a knockback. the trigs cover this. you should have a timer on your screen and a warning when it is coming. plan accordingly to reposition the boss back where he needs to be.

there were old trigs that included the vortex of tears ae/knockback as firing the 'totem move' gina trig.  these need to be deleted and you need to download the newest set of trigs. it appeared that every time there was a knockback last time the tanks were moving the mob - this shouldn't be happening.

thank you.
Title: Re: TBM - Plane of Health - T2 - Stem the Tide
Post by: Raccoo on May 07, 2016, 05:06:09 AM
[47278] Pulsing Fumes
Target: Caster PB
AE Range: 2000'
Resist: Lowest -850, Min Resist Chance: 10%, Max Resist Chance: 25%
Focusable: Yes
Reflectable: Yes
Casting: 0s
Duration: 48s (8 ticks), Dispelable: Yes
1: Decrease Current HP by 69003 per tick
2: Cancel if Moved 50
3: Increase Corruption Counter by 25
4: Decrease AC v2 by 600
5: Increase Reverse Damage Shield by 350
Text: Terrible fumes engulf you. Run from it!

Are healers supposed to be curing this or are people supposed to cure themselves by moving? Noticed someone had this on them for a while and wondered if they are expecting cures.
Title: Re: TBM - Plane of Health - T2 - Stem the Tide
Post by: Brenlaven on May 07, 2016, 07:16:07 PM
Pulsing Fumes - run away dot....

IMO, if there is a toon that can group cure it...they should be casting it.  It helps in every way possible. Casters don't have to "run" to cure and can keep dpsing. Melee don't have to "run" to cure and can keep dpsing.

However, melee are in rampage range so the curer for those toons may be eating rampage too which isn't always a good idea. It just depends on the toon.

But in the end...if a toon is dying from this dot waiting for a cure it is on that toon to think and move instead of expecting a cure or simply dying.  This is assuming the toons in the group are doing the right thing and trying to stay near the heeler/curer instead of being spread out for no valid reason. Those green 'x' on your map are useful...people should be using them.

The entire event and strategy is a mess.  Everyone runs way too far to cure Pulsing Fumes btw...it is 50' or something...no need to run to other side of the zone.  Personally, it seems reasonable for a heeler/curer to be in the middle of the 'circle' and only move if/when a totem is in the way. The group could stand near the heeler and then when the heeler moves to avoid the totem the group moves to the heeler.  The strat of being 'outside' the circle is interesting but just seems to make the 'stay together' plan harder.
Title: Akkapan Fast
Post by: Brenlaven on May 07, 2016, 07:29:12 PM
Achievement Akkapan Fast.

I like that Freelance is working on the achievements.  This one needs some refinement which is to be expected. As there is more attempts at it the strategy will come together.  As an idea for adjustments...here are some observations/thoughts...

It took almost 3 minutes to kill all the adds at the start (best guess) which leaves all of 12 minutes to kill the boss.  Assuming we will have between 10-12 minutes to kill the boss and all his adds the strategy has to change for doing this achievement.

On the engage of the boss...the burns from the adds are still running in some cases so wasting even 30 seconds to plant fires is 30 seconds of burns being wasted. Instead, how about the MTO picks up the boss after the initial adds are dead and stand a spot and tank the boss. The fires can be dropped while the boss is being worked on with the leftover burns.  A totem will spawn eventually and the boss can be moved to a fire as normal.

Rather than pulling the boss away from the adds every time they spawn how about we simply leave the boss where he is (totems of course need reacting to) and kill the first 3 (maybe 4?) waves of adds at the bosses feet?  The first 4 waves are 1, 3 , 5, 5 according to other posts in this thread.  There should be no reason to pull the boss away from adds for these waves.  Later waves sure...the numbers add up.

The first 3 or 4 waves of adds could be AE'd down pretty reasonably right?  There are times where an add tank has 2 or 3 adds on him from broken mez or simply non-mez adds so if the heeler for that add tank actually does heel the add tank it should be okay to let the wave not be mezzed.

After wave 4 (?) go back to the move boss -> mez adds -> run around looking for adds because they are not grouped together strategy...until the boss is dead.

Just some thoughts on how to optimized the strat...

Title: Re: TBM - Plane of Health - T2 - Stem the Tide
Post by: Zelorne on May 07, 2016, 10:10:51 PM
I've mentioned  it before but we don't have to kill all the adds before we start the event. If you kill about half or so the boss spawns you can then pull the boss single and leave the rest there. We would have to relocate to another clearing on the western edge to avoid the remaining adds. The boss does not leash from there.
Title: Re: TBM - Plane of Health - T2 - Stem the Tide
Post by: Brenlaven on May 08, 2016, 12:02:42 AM
Quote from: Zelorne on May 07, 2016, 10:10:51 PM
I've mentioned  it before but we don't have to kill all the adds before we start the event.

Freelance could also try to do the event like RoI does and simply move the boss and entire raid when adds spawn since they are nonaggro at start and they will not aggro anyone if people are out of aggro range.  There is a video of this strat btw. Not saying it is the strat Freelance wants to use but if we are tossing out ideas there is another one to consider...

This is an interesting strat and it might work but don't you have to kill all the adds in the end to beat the event? And it isn't related to the achievement is it?
Title: Re: TBM - Plane of Health - T2 - Stem the Tide
Post by: Raccoo on May 08, 2016, 02:53:45 AM
Someone said boss HP locks when adds are up.
Title: Re: TBM - Plane of Health - T2 - Stem the Tide
Post by: Furro on May 12, 2016, 10:43:30 PM
Quote from: Brenlaven on May 07, 2016, 07:16:07 PM
Pulsing Fumes - run away dot....

IMO, if there is a toon that can group cure it...they should be casting it.  It helps in every way possible. Casters don't have to "run" to cure and can keep dpsing. Melee don't have to "run" to cure and can keep dpsing.

However, melee are in rampage range so the curer for those toons may be eating rampage too which isn't always a good idea. It just depends on the toon.

But in the end...if a toon is dying from this dot waiting for a cure it is on that toon to think and move instead of expecting a cure or simply dying.  This is assuming the toons in the group are doing the right thing and trying to stay near the heeler/curer instead of being spread out for no valid reason. Those green 'x' on your map are useful...people should be using them.

The entire event and strategy is a mess.  Everyone runs way too far to cure Pulsing Fumes btw...it is 50' or something...no need to run to other side of the zone.  Personally, it seems reasonable for a heeler/curer to be in the middle of the 'circle' and only move if/when a totem is in the way. The group could stand near the heeler and then when the heeler moves to avoid the totem the group moves to the heeler.  The strat of being 'outside' the circle is interesting but just seems to make the 'stay together' plan harder.

I agree there is no need to run far when pulsing fumes emote fires.  It really only takes a short distance to remove the debuff.
Title: Re: TBM - Plane of Health - T2 - Stem the Tide
Post by: Furro on May 12, 2016, 10:48:18 PM
Quote from: Raccoo on May 08, 2016, 02:53:45 AM
Someone said boss HP locks when adds are up.

We'll find out in our next /ach run attempt, which should be this week.  Some ideas were spit balled and expored post raids last week.

Title: Re: TBM - Plane of Health - T2 - Stem the Tide
Post by: Zelorne on May 13, 2016, 11:48:48 AM
I confirmed it myself that when you begin the event the boss will spawn when 20 of those adds remain.

This achievement seems very difficult. Ideally you would want to ae stun and dps every add wave while the boss is moved out, several shaman to surge heal the raid through totem aura and paladins splash curing that pulsing fumes dot and any deathstrikes that hit raid. Easier said than done.
Title: Re: TBM - Plane of Health - T2 - Stem the Tide
Post by: Furro on May 26, 2016, 11:07:29 PM
Dimbly had an idea for a different approach to how we move the boss.  Basically, it involves moving in parallel.  I asked him to work up a diagram to help illustrate the idea so everyone is on the same page.  We will be trying this out next run, along with some other changes which will be covered during prep.

Ignore the purple "Run to cure" markers, we're going to ignore that emote and have Paladins splash to remove the effect.

I've updated the trigger package by removing the Pulsing Fumes run away emote, and replaced it with one for Paladins to splash.  Everyone please delete your old set and import the new.  For non-Paladins, you can toggle off the new trigger (or delete it), it's in a folder called: Pulsing Fumes - Paladin Splash to cure.

Dimbly diagram:
(http://eqfreelance.net/images/tbm-stem-the-tide-time-ach.jpg)
Title: Achievement Akkapan Fast.
Post by: Brenlaven on June 08, 2016, 06:27:19 AM
Achievement Akkapan Fast.

Everyone should want this ach...but it is clear that until this target can be downed in a clean manner the ach should be on the back burner.

Regardless of which strat (circle/square vs line) is used...the raid has to focus and work on getting the boss / adds down cleaner.

As a tank it is annoyingly difficult to try to keep the adds grouped because totems land and all the tank wants to do is move the add out of the aura. There is not big blinking sign that says "every tank bring your add here" so it is a free for all...which leads to adds being spread out.  Not sure what can be done to reduce this really but if there are ideas share them please.

Handling adds....as mentioned in FLRaids...if everyone but the tanks backed away when the adds spawn and wait for them to go aggro it should mean less deaths for melee (or casters).  If the adds are being mezzed it still lets tanks pick up adds....maybe the tanks could step back too...so only the 'live' ones need to be picked up.  Hard to do...but moving away gives the add CC process (mez/tank) a better chance of getting it done.  Will let Furro clarify how he wants this done as necessary but less deaths should mean more DPS right?

As a side note, (Freelance is not RoI but it is still interesting)....RoI had posted a video on YouTube (gone now) where at the later add spawns the entire raid would move on the "adds spawn" emote.  The adds simply stood where they spawned.  If someone was slow and in aggro range the adds would aggro that toon...so they were either killed or the toon just died.  The video showed that a set of adds spawned...raid moved...then those adds were tagged and killed in RoI style (zerging them).  But the last 3 (?) sets of adds...were simply let to spawn...and the boss was taken to 2% (?) and then the adds pulled in by clumps and again zerged in RoI style.  Not suggesting Freelance try to zerg RoI style...but if Furro thinks this is an option for a strat it is just info to explain that the adds would just stand around if nobody was in aggro range. BTW, RoI used a modified line strat where they killed a certain number of add waves (in a circle area) then started pulling the boss in a line leaving the adds behind as described above.

Run to cure (Pulsing Fury?) is curable by a single cast of drood group cure BTW. Pally splash is great but if a caster group is out of range of pally's a simple cure can get it handled for the group.  Death Strike is RC curable as well...maybe by other things as well.

On the emote where the boss wants to kill a toon...that toon still needs to run TO the boss. Otherwise the tank has to chase it down...melee DPS can't hit the boss...and the tank could die by a bad round or being OOR of heelerz.  Is there a pattern that helps a toon know they are about to be smacked?

It seems like the boss "glares" at a toon then will smack that toon...is this accurate? Or is the "glares" related to the Death Strike buff?  Anyone have any insight on it?

Knowing you are about to get smacks means the toon can head to the boss...but if the "glare" is for Death Strike then that toon needs to get to the group curer to cure that thing ASAP.

So far, this event has been herding cats (funny how the boss is a rat huh?) but it will get better...folks just need to keep working the strat Furro is implementing until everyone is comfortable with it....so lets stop the bitching about "going back to strat 'x'" please.  Furro is working hard to refine the strat as he finds what works best...complaining in FLRaids doesn't help folks focus on the strat at hand...it simply confused people.


Title: Re: TBM - Plane of Health - T2 - Stem the Tide
Post by: Furro on June 08, 2016, 10:33:01 PM
I'm posting a strategy update later which details exactly what we're trying to accomplish.  It also includes a diagram/map which should clearly articulate our linear/parallel lines concept.  I just wanted to take a moment and reply to Brens post though, because it gives me an opportunity to clarify/point out some examples of why we believe the linear line approach may prove to be more succesful as opposed to our previous square waypoint strategy.

Quote from: Brenlaven on June 08, 2016, 06:27:19 AM
Achievement Akkapan Fast.

Everyone should want this ach...but it is clear that until this target can be downed in a clean manner the ach should be on the back burner.


The achievement is really just a motivator.  Our main objective is to do the event more quickly and efficiently.  Previous wins before moving to a line strategy were excruciating (30-45+ mins).  You're aware of this having been at many of them.  We'd get to points where many players had died several times, and at some points near the end it was almost a complete wipe and we were essentially rezzing and zerging.  The square positioning with four move waypoints was never reliably executed and arguably encouraged players to spread out, which caused healing issues among other things. 

With the square four waypoint strat for example, players often lingered/positioned/inadvertantly ended up at a campfire (a marked waypoint for MT), and then a totem would spawn at their location.  A short time later, the MT would have to move the boss but couldn't use the waypoint because of the existing totem.  It would cause confusion for the MT, or the MT would move there blindly (because they're walking backwards [ using their map ] usually to the waypoint, not expecting a totem there to begin with), and they'd take damage moving into the totem, then have to move again to another campfire... This happened often.  Using our linear lines strategy, this is far less likely to happen because there's never any reason anyone except for the MT needs to be in front of the boss.  All the "action" is behind the boss (adds, and even when we're actively killing the boss).

Another big benefit to the linear lines strategy is that it actively segments casters/healers from the bulk of our melee.  This cuts down on the random chance a totem spawns at melee for example.  If it spawns at casters/healers, they simply shuffle along the blue line on their map.  If it spawns at melee, they adjust accordingly as well (green line/side).  Further, a good portion of our linear progression takes place in a corridor (walls on each side), which forces players to stay closer together (which benefits healing/curing/adps).  Players are forced to keep up with the raid, because that's where the "action" is.  But having said that, they're not constantly moving every 5 seconds.  For casters/healers, they're able to shuffle along the blue line and operate at a position for a while before a raid mechanic forces them to move again or to keep up with the raid.

I'm not saying circle/square with waypoints cannot work.  Just that it allows players a lot of freedom of movement, and that doesn't work in our favour most of the time.


Quote from: Brenlaven on June 08, 2016, 06:27:19 AM
Regardless of which strat (circle/square vs line) is used...the raid has to focus and work on getting the boss / adds down cleaner.

As a tank it is annoyingly difficult to try to keep the adds grouped because totems land and all the tank wants to do is move the add out of the aura. There is not big blinking sign that says "every tank bring your add here" so it is a free for all...which leads to adds being spread out.  Not sure what can be done to reduce this really but if there are ideas share them please.

With casters/healers properly following their blue line, it'll help reduce the chance of a totem spawning in the adds (ie where melee/tanks are).

Re: "every tank bring your add here".

If a tank is moving their add out of a totem, there's really only one way to go: Forward.  I suppose you could go to the sides, but there should be enough room to advance the add forward into the gap the MT created when he/she moved the boss immediately when adds spawned.  Yeah, the MT has to nail the move.

The other side of this is, we've been discussing whether or not we could ignore the totem during adds.  Minisca believes we can fight through it.  I'm fine with trying it, providing a) Boss AE Rampage is out not included (it shouldn't be if MT moves properly), b) Players react to Death Strike emote properly (they should be now, since I fixed the trigger [ mentioned in my update post tba ]).  Technically, the Totem AE is really only 50k after spell shielding kicks in.  As a melee, they take more damage from Boss AE rampage than they do from a totem.  From a healing point of view, our CR/SoTW/IOS (healing over time) efforts are being coordinated during add sets, to offset all the damage going on.  So with all that in mind, I believe it's possible we could muscle through a totem.  The downside though (the risk), is really all on the Add Tanks.  The adds are pretty hard hitters, and we have to consider a 50k hit on top of a melee round (on an undisced tank, beacuse they won't be disced all the time).  Some of our weaker tanks, respectfully, may not hold up.  Not all the adds are stunnable either, to help mitigate the damage.

In the strategy update I've specifically left out a directive for the Add Tanks and adjusting position when in a totem, because this is something we could adjust before making an attempt and gauge the effectiveness.  From there, determine if it's viable to go forward with it.

On a similar note, (AE damage), in the strategy update; I've worded how melee dps should react in a "use your judgement" fashion.  Because melee dps are in the thick of things and often they have to decide whether to react to the Vortex AE trigger and step out for a moment to avoid it, or take the hit and continue.  The same is true of a totem situation for melee dps.  Basically, if a melee sees their HP get dangerously low, sometimes stepping back to avoid the Vortex AE or Totem AE can give their healer a moment to react and top their HP off.


Quote from: Brenlaven on June 08, 2016, 06:27:19 AM
Handling adds....as mentioned in FLRaids...if everyone but the tanks backed away when the adds spawn and wait for them to go aggro it should mean less deaths for melee (or casters).  If the adds are being mezzed it still lets tanks pick up adds....maybe the tanks could step back too...so only the 'live' ones need to be picked up.  Hard to do...but moving away gives the add CC process (mez/tank) a better chance of getting it done.  Will let Furro clarify how he wants this done as necessary but less deaths should mean more DPS right?

We need to be killing the adds the moment they spawn, even while they are inactive (they are damagable).  While adds are inactive doesn't prevent a tank from aggroing them.  Every second counts.  Some people may think this is crazy, but we need the adds down in 15-30 seconds.  Period.  That's our window.  Using AE damage and all the DPS we can muster, going all out.  The adds are the threat.  Eliminating the threat as quickly as possible is the number one priority.

We need to stop mezzing adds.  We can use AE Stuns, and brute force healing counteract the damage from adds.  The moment we use mez, we cannot use AE damage, which cuts our effectiveness down significantly.


Quote from: Brenlaven on June 08, 2016, 06:27:19 AM
As a side note, (Freelance is not RoI but it is still interesting)....RoI had posted a video on YouTube (gone now) where at the later add spawns the entire raid would move on the "adds spawn" emote.  The adds simply stood where they spawned.  If someone was slow and in aggro range the adds would aggro that toon...so they were either killed or the toon just died.  The video showed that a set of adds spawned...raid moved...then those adds were tagged and killed in RoI style (zerging them).  But the last 3 (?) sets of adds...were simply let to spawn...and the boss was taken to 2% (?) and then the adds pulled in by clumps and again zerged in RoI style.  Not suggesting Freelance try to zerg RoI style...but if Furro thinks this is an option for a strat it is just info to explain that the adds would just stand around if nobody was in aggro range. BTW, RoI used a modified line strat where they killed a certain number of add waves (in a circle area) then started pulling the boss in a line leaving the adds behind as described above.

The funny thing about such a strat of leaving the adds behind is that it's total fucking cheese.  Development never tied add aggro to the boss and therefore the adds don't aggro after going active.  For a guild to take advantage of that oversight and incorporate it into a strategy is funny and sad all rolled into one.  A guild should have the balls to fucking kill the adds (or deal with them in some fashion, be it CC/etc), without using such a design oversight to their personal advantage.  How many events do you know where adds spawn and never go active if no one is around?  Raid events.  I can't think of any, but I'm sure there are some, and I doubt it's intended.  I'm not saying this to start a flame war or claim that FL is better than x guild.  But really, the adds pop for a reason, they're not there to look at or just run away and completely avoid.  I mean really, to employ such a tactic would make the event completely trivial.  Think about it.  Regardless whether a guild kills a few waves of adds at the start, the real event begins when the 5x adds and beyond come into play.


Quote from: Brenlaven on June 08, 2016, 06:27:19 AM
Run to cure (Pulsing Fury?) is curable by a single cast of drood group cure BTW. Pally splash is great but if a caster group is out of range of pally's a simple cure can get it handled for the group.  Death Strike is RC curable as well...maybe by other things as well.

Paladins are curing this with the aid of a trigger that tells them exactly when to queue up their splash ring and when to cast splash.

They're getting better at it.  But there's room for improvement.  Perhaps in the chaos they're not queuing up their splash always, which causes a delay.  Also, some Paladins may not realise that they can queue up a splash ring and cast other spells afterwards while still maintaining the ring.  Then use the ring when they need it.  It doesn't lockout using other spells.


Quote from: Brenlaven on June 08, 2016, 06:27:19 AM
On the emote where the boss wants to kill a toon...that toon still needs to run TO the boss. Otherwise the tank has to chase it down...melee DPS can't hit the boss...and the tank could die by a bad round or being OOR of heelerz.  Is there a pattern that helps a toon know they are about to be smacked?

It seems like the boss "glares" at a toon then will smack that toon...is this accurate? Or is the "glares" related to the Death Strike buff?  Anyone have any insight on it?

Knowing you are about to get smacks means the toon can head to the boss...but if the "glare" is for Death Strike then that toon needs to get to the group curer to cure that thing ASAP.

I clarified this in the strategy update post.


Quote from: Brenlaven on June 08, 2016, 06:27:19 AM
So far, this event has been herding cats (funny how the boss is a rat huh?) but it will get better...folks just need to keep working the strat Furro is implementing until everyone is comfortable with it....so lets stop the bitching about "going back to strat 'x'" please.  Furro is working hard to refine the strat as he finds what works best...complaining in FLRaids doesn't help folks focus on the strat at hand...it simply confused people.

Respectfully, to one or more individuals who believe because we've defeated this event a number of times in the past, that the strategy was somehow working is just false.  There are times we need to completely adjust our tactics for events, or tweak/polish existing tactics to be more effective.  This is a case of the former, not the latter.  I believe this is one of the most challenging events of the entire expansion.  How we come together and tackle challenging events says a lot about us as a team.  Freelance puts a lot of emphasis on teamwork and improving our overall performance as a team.  Our efforts on challenging events make us stronger as a team and helps prepare us for future challenges.

I'll post the strategy update in a couple hours.

Later,
-F
Title: Re: TBM - Plane of Health - T2 - Stem the Tide
Post by: Gimamam on June 08, 2016, 11:50:12 PM
Quote
While adds are inactive doesn't prevent a tank from aggroing them.


yeah, we can aggro them. but they do not retain it.

i have terrored my ass off, ae'd them before they are active. and the only time i get them and keep them is after they are live.
Title: Re: TBM - Plane of Health - T2 - Stem the Tide
Post by: Furro on June 09, 2016, 12:05:54 AM
Quote from: Gimamam on June 08, 2016, 11:50:12 PM
Quote
While adds are inactive doesn't prevent a tank from aggroing them.


yeah, we can aggro them. but they do not retain it.

i have terrored my ass off, ae'd them before they are active. and the only time i get them and keep them is after they are live.

Really?  I never knew that.  Interesting.

I guess in a way, it may not matter.  Can the tanks snap up aggro as they go active if someone happens to land a nuke a split second before hand?  It may be worth the risk, as we can eek out a bit more damage early.
Title: Re: TBM - Plane of Health - T2 - Stem the Tide
Post by: Raccoo on June 09, 2016, 12:17:30 AM
Quote from: Furro on June 08, 2016, 10:33:01 PM
The other side of this is, we've been discussing whether or not we could ignore the totem during adds.  Minisca believes we can fight through it.

I was thinking that the totem effects are cumulative. But I haven't checked to be sure. Seemed like I was taking more damage when near 2+.
Title: Re: TBM - Plane of Health - T2 - Stem the Tide
Post by: Furro on June 09, 2016, 12:36:36 AM
Quote from: Raccoo on June 09, 2016, 12:17:30 AM
Quote from: Furro on June 08, 2016, 10:33:01 PM
The other side of this is, we've been discussing whether or not we could ignore the totem during adds.  Minisca believes we can fight through it.

I was thinking that the totem effects are cumulative. But I haven't checked to be sure. Seemed like I was taking more damage when near 2+.

It's possible.  All the more reason to expedite our add killing, to not end up in a situation where we have more than one totem up in our immediate vicinity.

Title: Re: TBM - Plane of Health - T2 - Stem the Tide
Post by: Furro on June 09, 2016, 01:19:16 AM
Strategy Updates

This post is intended to replace our original strategy post.  As such, it covers essentially everything (with the exception of some superfluous info such as spell details/links, which may be taken from the OP and merged later).

The main idea behind this post is to get everyone on the same page.

Trigger Update Notes:

Before getting into the weeds on the rest of this post, below are reference notes for the trigger package changes:
* With these changes we need everyones triggers up to speed.  Delete your old set before importing new.  Ensure the triggers are toggled on appropriately.


Brief Event Overview

We begin by AE'ing trash to clear to the boss (Akkapan Adan).

After trash, we immediately engage Akkapan Adan.

Adds spawn at boss HP intervals: 88%, 76%, 64%, 52%, 40%, 28%, 16%, and 4%.  The boss cannot be killed unless all adds are dead.

Throughout the event we must deal with various AEs and emote mechanics as detailed in the Event Mechanics & Emotes section of this post.

Once all the adds and Akkapan Adan have been killed, the event is complete.


The remainder of this post focuses on strategy details and related areas of prep.  Please take the time to familarize yourself with these strategy details and prepare in advance by downloading and importing the related audio triggers and ensuring they are toggled on.  Further, please download the map file and test it in advance by going to Plane of Health (regular zone, non-instanced works) to ensure the positioning lines are correctly displayed.

If you have any questions, please reply to this thread and/or contact one of the FL Leads by PM via this forum or in-game /tell.  Thank you.


Event Mechanics & Emotes

There are several mechanics we need to deal with:

Boss Aggro Emote: You have been chosen for death by Akkapan Adan! <- RUN TO BOSS.  This avoids boss running amok, running through raid and MT chasing it needlessly.

Death Strike:

Totem - Embodiment of Decay:

Vortex of Tears:

Seperate Melee DPS trigger addon is included for this, because it really doesn't affect Casters/Healers, due to positioning.

Pulsing Fumes:


Strategy

This is a quick overview of the most critical aspects we need everyone to conform to.  Commit this to memory, read it each day before you go to work, read it when you get home from work, and read it before turning in for the night.  Log in to EQ, go to Plane of Health, practice/orient yourself with the map lines.  Also ensure your triggers are setup and toggled on.  Do this prep work so it's second nature when it comes time to hit this target.

Everyone

DPS

Enchanters & Bards

Add Tanks

Boss Main Tanks

Open your map, adjust it accordingly so you can glance at it to stay on course (red line on map).

Moving the boss is learned behavior.  It takes good judgement.  When a totem spawns for example, moving the boss widens the gap between the totem and you, which allows the raid to advance out of the totem AE.  I can illustrate this with a diagram if anyone needs, but here's a simple textual representation of totem/add situations requiring boss moves:

Totem situation:You -> Boss -> Totem AE ( raid in AE ).
After boss move:You -> Boss -> [ gap ] (raid not in AE, they advanced) -> Totem AE behind us.
 
Adds spawn:You -> Boss -> Adds ( raid in Boss AE Rampage ).
After boss move:You -> Boss -> [ gap ] (raid not in Boss AE Rampage during adds)

Note: If judging the distance to move is a big issue, I may be able to work out the correct distances and add map markers to the red line, and the MT could then move to each marker.

MT Hotkey aid for Aggro Emote (Pure Fury): [ Todo, waiting on response from Zak with better details, as I don't want to provide inaccurate instructions for this. ]


Paladins

Healers

Remember the primal rule: A B C = Always be casting.

Follow the blue line on the map.  There are four main scenerios where you have to adjust position:

Clerics:

Druids:

Shaman:


Positioning Details & Map File with Lines

We start North (top of map), and work our way down.

MT moves boss each time the following occurs:

Map file: pohealth_1.txt (http://www.eqfreelance.net/ssark/maps/TBM/stem/pohealth_1.txt)

Blue Line=>Casters/Healers
Red Line=>Boss Main Tank
Green Line=>Melee

Reminder: Everyone stay out of the yellow cone area marked "Active MT Only" please unless you are the current MT on boss.

(http://www.eqfreelance.net/images/tbm-stem-the-tide-time-adjust-animation.gif)


Add Waves

Everyone with spell damage AEs, have them in your line-up.  Any complimentary AE discs with long timers, save them for the bigger waves.

It's a 9-10 minute window from the start of our run engaging boss to end with adds at various stages.  Use your discs efficiently.  That means that short refresh discs should be used everytime they are available.  Do not save up all your discs for the very end.  It's more effective to always be using your abilities when they are up.  The only exception to this are long-refresh discs/AE discs, which we would prefer you use for the bigger sets of adds.

Never be on boss when adds are up.

Killing adds as quickly as possible is DPS priority #1.

HP%  AddsDPS
88%1  <- this should die before it even goes active.
76%3  All DPS, AE damage
64%5  All DPS, AE damage
52%5  All DPS, AE damage
40%7  All DPS, AE damage, Mag/Wiz any discs to augment AEs
28%7  All DPS, AE damage, Mag/Wiz any discs to augment AEs
16%11  All DPS, AE Dmg, Bers/Rogs AE discs (long timers)
4~%11  All DPS, AE Dmg, Bers/Rogs AE discs (long timers)


Text & Audio Triggers - Mandatory

Delete existing triggers for this event before importing new.  Expand the set and toggle on any sub-folders as appropriate.

Everyone - GINA File: tbm-plane-of-health-stem-the-tide-06-07-2016-1227pm.gtp (http://www.eqfreelance.net/ssark/triggers/TBM/tbm-plane-of-health-stem-the-tide-06-07-2016-1227pm.gtp) (updated 06-07-2016 (12:27pm))

Paladin Only - GINA File: tbm-plane-of-health-stem-the-tide-paladin-only-pulsing-fumes-06-06-2016-810pm.gtp (http://www.eqfreelance.net/ssark/triggers/TBM/tbm-plane-of-health-stem-the-tide-paladin-only-pulsing-fumes-06-06-2016-810pm.gtp) (added 06-06-2016 (8:10pm))

Melee DPS Only - GINA File: tbm-plane-of-health-stem-the-tide-melee-dps-only-vortex-ae-warning-06-06-2016-1131pm.gtp (http://www.eqfreelance.net/ssark/triggers/TBM/tbm-plane-of-health-stem-the-tide-melee-dps-only-vortex-ae-warning-06-06-2016-1131pm.gtp) (added 06-06-2016 (11:31pm))

Note: Paladin and Melee DPS trigger sets are addons only.  Those respective players need to also import the "Everyone" set as well.

Everyone set includes:
- Adds spawned
- Totem effect messages (1st person)
- Death Strike - Targets YOU - Run away from the raid - 10s warning.  AE DDs everyone around you.  Get curse cured before returning to the raid.
- Death Strike - Who was targeted.  For identifying who was targeted in event of emote failure by x person (ties in with buckle pattern trig for failues)
- Death Strike - Last person targeted FAILED the emote.  This is an aid trigger to help identify who is failing this emote resulting in extra AE damage taken.
- Pure Fury - Aggro emote - RUN TO BOSS.

Paladin set includes:
- Pulsing Fumes, early warning when to queue up splash and exactly when to cast splash.

Melee DPS set includes:
- Vortex cast overlay, 40s warns when down to 3s that it's about to cast.  It's a very short range AE (25') from boss.  As a melee, you can back away from boss a few steps, avoid it, then re-engage.  This can be helpful if you can't take AE Rampage + Vortex combination of damage, which can be significant together.


GINA Issues?  Help Below:

If you're new to GINA and/or having issues with importing/enabling our trigger files, please read Ssark's GINA Manual (http://eqfreelance.net/ssark/docs/GINA.pdf).  If you're still having issues after following Ssark's guide, reply to the Audio and Text Triggers Alternative - GINA (http://forums.eqfreelance.net/index.php?topic=2483.0) thread located in the Raiders Essentials section of our forums, and we'll work to resolve the issue(s).


Map Download

This is the same map file as linked earlier in the post.  It's helpful to have it here as well to ensure it stands out and allows for easier reference if we have to direct someone to download it.

Map file: pohealth_1.txt (http://www.eqfreelance.net/ssark/maps/TBM/stem/pohealth_1.txt)

Right click the file, and "Save As", or something similar depending on your browser.  Save the file in your Everquest maps folder.  Most commonly this is: C:\Program Files (x86)\Sony\EverQuest\maps

If prompted whether you want to overwrite the existing file (or something similar, depending on your operating system), click "Yes/OK".

You cannot update your map if you are in the zone that the map file is for.  In other words, don't be in Plane of Health when you save the map file.  Or you can do it while out of game.

If you have any questions/issues with the above map instructions, please re-read them and repeat the steps.  If you still have issues, reply to this thread and we'll try and assist.  Thanks.
Title: Re: TBM - Plane of Health - T2 - Stem the Tide
Post by: Brenlaven on June 09, 2016, 05:21:26 AM
Quote from: Furro on June 09, 2016, 01:19:16 AM
You cannot update your map if you are in the zone that the map file is for.  In other words, don't be in Plane of Health when you save the map file.  Or you can do it while out of game.

Assuming the devs have not broken it (again)...you can update the map while in the same zone.

You can update the file for the zone you are in and then click the "Current Zone" button and it will update your map.  In the past you had to zone but now you can update map files while in zone.  However, it would still be better if everyone downloaded this file and the triggers BEFORE starting the raid to make sure it is working / loaded for the raid.

Brenlaven
Title: Re: TBM - Plane of Health - T2 - Stem the Tide
Post by: Nintap on June 17, 2016, 11:19:33 PM
   Just some thoughts..we are trying to gain /ach for kill in under 15 min. Suppose we burn boss from get go with burns that don't affect the AE burns needed later in hopes to get boss down to the 5 add-64% or 5add-52 % stage quickly. Objective here is to shave off some time of the overall raid. Adds would still be AE'd as normal.
   Of course we are trying to do this (get boss down fast), but maybe have some emphasis on this in the strat.   Thanks Nin.

Title: Re: TBM - Plane of Health - T2 - Stem the Tide
Post by: Brenlaven on June 17, 2016, 11:43:20 PM
Quote from: Nintap on June 17, 2016, 11:19:33 PM
   Just some thoughts..we are trying to gain /ach for kill in under 15 min. Suppose we burn boss from get go with burns that don't affect the AE burns needed later in hopes to get boss down to the 5 add-64% or 5add-52 % stage quickly.

Well, the last few runs have been AE the adds then rush the boss and engage him....the adds are dying fast enough that at least some burns should be still running and perhaps folks that are holding back on those adds or using shorter burn stuff could use longer running burns for adds leading into boss.  This would give you more DPS at the front end of the fight to get the boss lower sooner as you suggest.

Black wolf is 3:45 minutes long and the adds don't take that long to die it seems...so that would mean black wolf could be up still to help with DPS.  IoG may be too short of a duration to help carry forward. Mana Burn is 4 (?) or 5 (?) minutes maybe...so it might be one to consider but with the long refresh if there are limited Wizzy on raid it might be better to hold off until later.

It is really a DPS channel discussion IMO but I am not sure it has happened...and I don't know if the necros still think they should not be in the DPS channel.

Good thinking tho...the right mindset...kill faster...more loot...ach happen...move on to pie!
Title: How to handle adds
Post by: Brenlaven on June 18, 2016, 05:44:05 AM
The last two runs went pretty good.  Still a lot of deaths and a couple of people not running to the boss instead of running away.

Death Strike buff is still confusing people.  The triggers were adjusted, Furro wrote this long strat post.  People need to ask for clarification (here or in game).  The current strat appears to be...when emoted on Death Strike run FROM the raid...wait for it to hit you then cure (tell to a pally or self cure it) THEN move back to the raid.

When the boss is going to kill you...run TO the boss! Melee DPS goes to zero when the boss is chasing a caster or a heeler.  This was part of the reason the last run was slower.

On the add spawns...there seems to be conflicting information floating around....and the strat post either has hidden well or doesn't address clearly about tanking the adds where they spawn (totem or not) versus moving the adds.

Some are saying to move the adds out of the totem aura....others are saying to stand fast and AE the adds down.  This needs to be clarified by Furro/Gimamam.

The add tanks AND the add tank HEELERZ need to know and be ready for tanking in totem aura if that is the decision.  It is critical the heelerz are not asleep at the switch if add tanks are standing in the aura.  The same for melee DPS group heelerz...if melee is standing in the aura longer the heelerz have to be ready.

For SKs, Deceitful Deflection is very useful for tanking multiple adds and/or standing in the aura...since it will heel you for each target in range.  This doesn't mean SKs can stand in the aura without heelz or that the SKs can tank all the adds at once...just that SKs have ways to help stay alive in the aura.

If the adds are to be moved...they are to be moved TOWARD the boss...out of the aura (to the melee line?)

Ultimately, it would seem on early waves to be easier to stay in the aura and AE the adds (less adds so easier to kill them all)...and later waves deal with moving out of the aura as necessary.

A combo of standing where adds spawn early waves and moving out of auras on last couple waves might be enough to reduce the time on the event.

Freelance is getting there...just have to smooth out the deaths and figure out how to handle the adds (no conflicting ideas).

Brenlaven

Title: Re: TBM - Plane of Health - T2 - Stem the Tide
Post by: Celebairn on June 18, 2016, 07:52:19 PM
Quote from: Brenlaven on June 17, 2016, 11:43:20 PM
Mana Burn is 4 (?) or 5 (?) minutes maybe...so it might be one to consider but with the long refresh if there are limited Wizzy on raid it might be better to hold off until later.

Just want to clarify this... the mana burn debuff effect has a duration of 2 min with a limit of 500 procs, but during a raid full burn it lasts much much less than that, like 10 seconds before the 500 charges are gone. When we're using it outside of everyone on full burn like during Wither and Decay, it lasts around 30s.
Title: Re: TBM - Plane of Health - T2 - Stem the Tide
Post by: Brenlaven on June 18, 2016, 10:19:22 PM
Quote from: Celebairn on June 18, 2016, 07:52:19 PM
Just want to clarify this... the mana burn debuff effect has a duration of 2 min with a limit of 500 procs,
Very helpful!  Seems Mana Burn is for focused burst DPS...
Title: Re: TBM - Plane of Health - T2 - Stem the Tide
Post by: Raccoo on June 20, 2016, 03:11:01 AM
Quote
Mix in splash each time it is available, as best able.

I've noticed on Furro's parse show me casting spiritual swell 50+ and next highest shaman has in the teens for the last 2 attempts. I know we can do better on this, it will help the melee/add tanks stay alive longer.
Title: Re: TBM - Plane of Health - T2 - Stem the Tide
Post by: Over ez on June 24, 2016, 02:19:29 AM
Hey, I know pretty much nothing about dps but, if we want to kill faster for achievement:

It might help if we don't use MA on adds for this.  Just have each dps target the closest mob and attack until it dies, rinse wash repeat.

What we gain:
Melee dps moves less far
Nukes will not be wasted as much (mob dies before nuke lands = wasted nuke)
Fast dots will work more for the same reason (more dps)

These 3 things mean more dps - faster kills for achievement

What we lose:
Add Tanks need to live longer

No idea what else we lose - ignorant here.
Title: Re: TBM - Plane of Health - T2 - Stem the Tide
Post by: Padraigg on June 24, 2016, 01:55:03 PM
The thing that kills dps more than anything......Rez Effects!  Too many dps are dying to a number of different things.  Emote fails, dying to adds, staying in totem auras, etc.  I know I die on average 3 times (if not more) during this event usually to add agro or to an emote fail.  So there is a really good chunk of time during this event that I (and a lot of dps) are spending with rez effects on which renders us fairly useless during that time period.  We need to figure out how to stay alive more!
Title: Re: TBM - Plane of Health - T2 - Stem the Tide
Post by: Gimamam on June 24, 2016, 04:24:09 PM
with the limitations on fling effects, sometimes moving the add away from a totem proves quite difficult. i'm not sure if the add is stunned or stopping to cast or what - but i have been standing personally out of the totem with the mob 100% on my aggro, with me as target, and had dps yelling for me to move it.  i'd love to move it, but it simply is not following me. and when it summons me back to the totem or three, i'm taking that damage + the mob hitting for 30k's, i get the importance of moving the mobs.

the unfortunate of this fight is that it is high movement. and with this much movement, people forget to stay bunched up, linger in a location too long, or healers in transit aren't healing, etc..

bunching up will serve a long way to help us as splashes from clerics, ios, shaman rains, paladins can land more reliably.  and before you get into the argument of xyz isn't casting enough of those type of spells, it definitely at times is something that needs work.

paramount to our speed and survival is working as a team.  if you can see a position that someone can improve upon, please speak to furro, myself, or that class lead.  or if you can position yourself in a non-blame, non-confrontational helpful manner to speak with that person to help them improve, please take the initiative.

this has slowly become better and better on the fight. yes we have alot of deaths, and there are minor tweaks to what you do individually to benefit the whole.  As of this time, there are tanks assigned to each add wave to fort/defl and gather all mobs onto one person temporarily for the other tanks to pick up their individual mob.  this has in my opinion helped hugely on the add waves, more so on the later sets, but even the lesser waves are getting the attention they need.

if you find that you are standing in a totem or two totems, your dps is 0 when you are dead. there is a certain amount of personal responsibility for your own survival - getting out of the totem and using ranged damage, doing dps to a non assist target that is out of the totem range, or the unfortunate - doing 0 dps to that specific target for a few moments while you heal, is better than you dying.

We have made strides. our initial fights - 46m 11s, 45m 48s, 36m 20s

our last three wins - 17m 50s, 19m 18s, 18m

starting to consistently get under 20m.  we are in a much better position than we used to be.

Title: Re: TBM - Plane of Health - T2 - Stem the Tide
Post by: Padraigg on June 24, 2016, 05:10:56 PM
To clarify, my comment on staying in totems was no way intended to blame tanks for not moving them.  I understand the challenges tanks have in moving mobs that are being damaged/casted on.  My statement was just in general, people dying while being in the aura.  I don't feel that is the main cause of deaths either, was just putting that in the list.  Last night seemed to be highlighted by emote failures more than anything.  I am not sure if there are issues with the trig itself, confusion on course of action when trig goes off, or what, but it does seem there is A LOT of failures leading to a lot of deaths.  I do know that a couple of months back, there was a change in the emote text where a comma was removed.  Not sure if everyone has their trigs updated to reflect that change.

Also, may be worth removing the audio portion of the totem aura trig.  If I am in a totem aura, I get spammed by constant audio for it (even after I move out of it, it will continue to go off for a couple of seconds.)  Wonder if that is drowning out the audio for the run away trig for some people and are just not hearing it. 

I do agree that we are getting better as Gima and others have stated, but there are some things we need to improve on to smooth it out, and certainly if want to get the achievement.  Fewer deaths can certainly be on the list of things we need to improve on.  I am sure there are other areas as well....

Title: Making progress
Post by: Brenlaven on June 24, 2016, 11:42:46 PM
Overall, the strat is getting smoother. Lots more deaths than anyone wants (other than Curmugly he isn't dying enough IMO).

Smoothing out the boss movement and aggro control on the boss will help.  Optimizing DPS on the adds (by DPS toons not dying as much?) seems the logical next step in the process to reduce the overall time.

The wipes at the start were horrible.  That needs to improve long before worrying about making a specific time mark.

While Furro disagrees...if DPS continue to die on adds once they go active it might be worth it to DPS for 3 or 4 seconds then...back...up...so at 6 seconds the adds can go active and can be picked up by tanks and maybe let the DPS live.  Pad's point of rez effects hurting DPS would seem to mean it is worth "wasting" 6 seconds when the adds spawn so the add tanks can pick up the mobs.  This is up to the DPS toons...just remember dead DPS do zero DPS.  This is a just a theory and guess work so do what is best for your class.

Continuing on this strat...it seems that AEing/killing the low number add waves where they spawn (totem or not) has been working well enough.  Heelerz have been doing a great job keeping the tanks alive it looks like for those waves.

As Gima and Furro have mentioned...it is up to the toon to know if they can stand in aura and help DPS an add or two.  This will improve over time.

The current add strat appears to be..(until Furro gives an official comment) to tank the adds with 5 or less mobs where they stand. Later waves are moved out of the aura as best as possible as Gima said.  This has been working well...or well enough.

Again, Gima's point on adds...a stun locked add or an add that is simply busy standing around while a tank has 100%+ aggro out of an aura means the tank can't really do anything about moving that add.  There has been a lot less whining about moving the adds it seems as well...

Add tanks could work on trying to move in a common direction (toward the boss) to clump adds better..but it is herding cats on this one...

It will get better...just have to keep focused on each attempt each week.

Brenlaven


Title: Re: TBM - Plane of Health - T2 - Stem the Tide
Post by: Raccoo on September 04, 2016, 04:34:09 AM
We might want to consider assigning healers to splash certain players (I usually aim for the MA that is in my group). Have melee stay close together so they can all benefit (figure they should be following MA anyway, right?).