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Raider Essentials / Rampage Tanking and Rampage List
« on: December 12, 2015, 06:51:20 PM »
I did not see a previous post directly referencing Rampage information on the FL boards so hope this helps.
Much of this information was taken from a post that was previously hosted on the steelwarriors boards/site. (Definitive guide to RAMPAGE - by Jilaman) While this was written back in PoP/Luclin era, the information is still valid in the most part. In some places as needed to clarification/updates are made at the end. This post will be updated as needed with additions/corrections made by anyone who provides valid info.
Original post:
--------------------------------------------------------------
1. Rampage only hits ONE person at a time. You will see a lot of folks claiming a Rampaging mob can attack more than one player at a time. They are dead wrong. All rampage that exists today in Luclin and all previous expansions attacks only ONE player, period. This is the second most common misconception about rampage. (There are mobs that AE rampage in PoP, but this was written before PoP)
2. Rampage IS a proc. Rampage procs off of the normal attacks made by the mob you are fighting. If that mob isn't hitting anyone, you won't see any rampage messages. Also, because Rampage is a proc, DEX debuffs and other spells that decrease proc rate can indeed lower the rampage rate. Slows also reduce rampage rate because they reduce the rate of the normal attacks that proc rampage in the first place.
3. Rampage NEVER hits the person who is currently being attacked by the mob. Your main tank will never be taking rampage damage while he has aggro on the rampaging mob.
4. Rampage is a SINGLE attack. The person who is being hit by rampage will be hit by one of the mob's normal hits. This attack can be blocked, dodged, parried, and riposted normally.
5. Rampage DOES have a range, and that range IS different from the mob's normal melee range. This range differs from mob to mob. Some mobs can hit you with their rampage attacks literally no matter where you are in the zone; they have unlimited rampage range. Other mobs have rampage range that is barely larger than their normal attack range. Rampage range usually is larger than melee range.
6. Rampage does NOT follow line of sight rules. For normal attacks, if the mob can't see you, it can't hit you. Rampage works differently, and it will hit you even if you are hiding behind objects. If you are in range, you will be hit.
7. Rampage DOES NOT key off the main hate list. This is the most common misconception about how Rampage works. Any mob that can rampage has TWO hate lists, not one. The mob itself keys off of the main hate list just as every other mob in the game always has. The second hate list is for Rampage, and it works VERY differently from the normal hate list. Understanding how this second hate list works is the key to managing rampaging mobs.
Here are the rules for how the rampage hate list works. These rules determine where the rampage damage goes.
1. The order of the rampage list is based upon the order in which players gain aggro. As soon as you attack the mob, heal someone who is being attacked by the mob, or do anything else that causes the mob to aggro, you will be placed in the next spot on the rampage list.
2. NOTHING will get you off of the Rampage list except for Memwipe. Period. Feign death MAY get you off the rampage list IF you are lucky enough to score a memwipe when you feign, and we all know that's a crapshoot at best. Even death does NOT ALWAYS remove you from the rampage list; many rampaging mobs will start beating on someone who died to rampage the instant they are resurrected. Rumblecrush is notorious for this particular behavior, so plan your battle rezzing with care and make sure you rez the dead outside rampage range.
3. Nothing you do will move you up or down the rampage list. Taunt, evade, jolt, and other methods of controlling aggro such as chain snaring, stunning, hate giving and hate taking spells, as well as all weapons with hate generating procs all have NO EFFECT WHATSOEVER on your position in the rampage list. Chain healing and chain nuking also have absolutely no effect on positions in the rampage list, although they will get you to the top of the main hate list fairly fast.
The list forms in the order the mob aggros people, and it stays in that form, never changing EXCEPT to remove those who have scored memwipes with Feign Death. You CAN clear the list by repeatedly casting memblur and memwipe on the mob you are fighting, BUT remember that this will also clear the main hate list and that can cause all kinds of problems.
Now, things to remember...
Remember, rampage DOES have a range. If you are taking rampage damage and move out of a mob's rampage range, it will start attacking the next person on the rampage list until you move back in range, then it will start beating on you again.
The rampage list is SET IN STONE. This means if you know the order the mob aggroed people, you know exactly the order the rampage attacks will follow. This means you can control it.
If you have Feign Death, and use it, you will NOT take any rampage damage while feigned. When you stand, you will immediately start taking rampage damage again UNLESS you scored a memwipe with Feign Death, in which case you are now at the very bottom of the rampage list. This is, of course, subject to the usual feign death bug... if the mob doesn't buy the feign for whatever reason, you will continue to take rampage damage while Feigned.
Monks usually pull Rampage tank duty, especially if they have Combat Agility 3. The reason for this is that they will get hit by precious few of the rampage attacks due to their unmatched combat avoidance.
The usual strategy...
First, everyone needs to make a hotkey to the effect of "TAKING RAMPAGE DAMAGE NOW" and spam it the instant they start taking rampage damage. Healers need to be ON THE BALL and tracking that message so they can keep whoever it is alive. As long as the person taking rampage damage is alive, in rampage range, and doesn't Feign Death, you have locked rampage attacks down to that single person.
When you engage a rampaging mob, have your main tank get aggro first. Immediately send in all of your Monks and have them attack ONCE only to make sure they get the mob's attention. Note, you MUST make sure your monks attack BEFORE the first heal lands on the tank, or else that healer is going to be the first to take rampage damage and die very quickly. With rooted mobs this is trivially easy to do... just have your main tank hit the mob with an arrow, and then each monk follows suit in exactly the order you want them to take rampage.
Once that is done, engage normally. The monks will spam their enrage hotkeys as they take rampage damage. As long as you have healers keeping up with it, you've got it locked down.
Clerics, this means you have two main tanks to keep alive. If you have both ramp and ma in group it can be helpful to pr ramp tank and stay on ma)
--------------------------------------------------------------
Things to clarify/update:
Fade changed the way people could drop off the Ramp list - with the most recent changes, Fade is not reliable to most classes if they happen to be the next on the Ramp list. The shaman, chanter, shadowknight, monk classes have abilities that will fully remove them from combat even against raid mobs (verify other classes please.) Items such as the Lingering Essence of Cazic Thule (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=112245) will mezz you and remove you from combat. There are also Feign Death potions - Planar Overdose (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=108258) that can feign death you, while not wiping your aggro immediately, it will after 1 min like standard feign death. Please post/update with any other clickies and abilities that are standard fare to lose aggro now.
In FL we like to have warriors, shadowknights, and paladins on the ramp list first - not so much monks these days. Warriors have the straight mitigation and defensive discs to survive. SKs and paladins have mitigation and defensive discs, while not as nice as the warrior set, increase the survivability. They also have the added bonus of spell, aa, and proc invulnerability. Every paladin and sk should work towards and have available to them the Divine Hammer of Consternation (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=12657) or the Corrupted Hammer of Consternation (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=123584)
If you are called on to Ramp tank - liberally apply your defensive discs, as mobs these days do hit quite hard and often on their ramp hits, and at times will land 1-4 hits in a row.
Rampage damage trigger and on who - attached below - Created by Zaknaffein. Gives a very basic breakdown of who is doing the hitting, who is being hit, and how much. Modify to your needs.
Now to examples as that helps people understand in many cases.
Lets say there are 10 people on a raid about to engage BigBadBoss00. Lets call them... Overeasy(war), Furro(cler), Curmugly(wiz), Dimbly(dru), Bdallya(chanter), Toransa(sham), Gimamam(sk), Maglor(pal), Mistatk(war), Sanolan(bard). BigBadBoss00 has the rampage ability. MTO is laid out as Overeasy, Mistatk, and Ramp is set as Maglor, Gimamam. Maglor would trigger the mob with attack on to be sure that he is getting the first hit in on the mob. Gimamam would be very shortly after with any method of getting on the aggro list - dot, arrow, melee hit, something. This would put the two of them as the first two on the ramp hate list, followed shortly by Overeasy since he is now picking up the mob to tank. Mistatk shoots it with an arrow as it gets picked up by OE. Bdallya, Toransa, Dimbly all cast debuffs on the mob now that its moving, and Furro starts healing. They are the next four on the list. Sanolan did not have his ae songs going yet, but started attacking when the mob was in camp, so he is next. Curmugly waits like a good dps until assist is called and is subsequently last on the list. The immediate effect is that the Ramp list is populated as follows:
1. Maglor - Currently being hit by Ramp damage.
2. Gimamam
3. Overeasy - Currently tanking.
4. Mistatk
5. Bdallya
6. Toransa
7. Dimbly
8. Furro
9. Sanolan
10. Curmugly
Well, Maglor didn't get a heal on time on a bad ramp round + AE and died, And Gimamam wasn't quick enough on the defensive and got eaten by the next ramp round. They get rezzed and start attacking again. The list has now shifted to make Overeasy the top of the ramp list - but since he is currently the active tank - he will not be hit by ramp + tank damage, the ramp hits would shift to the next in line.
1. Overeasy - Currently tanking.
2. Mistatk - Currently being hit by Ramp damage.
3. Bdallya
4. Toransa
5. Dimbly
6. Furro
7. Sanolan
8. Curmugly
9. Gimamam
10. Maglor
If OE called a tank swap and Mist picked it up - their positions on ramp list would not shift at all, but now that Mist is tanking - OE would now take the ramp damage.
1. Overeasy - Currently being hit by Ramp damage.
2. Mistatk - Currently tanking.
3. Bdallya
4. Toransa
5. Dimbly
6. Furro
7. Sanolan
8. Curmugly
9. Gimamam
10. Maglor
At this point - Gimamam and Maglor will NOT have ramp again until the other 8 people on the list are dead, currently tanking, or mem wiped off the ramp list.
If Overeasy had to run out of range for an emote - the ramp hits would fall to Bdallya until OE moved back into mob range.
Simple example, but should illustrate. For real raid purposes - expand this to 54 people.
Most times, debuffers/healers end up at the top of the list because of overzealousness, tank inaction, or tank death.
Rampage list is something fully controllable on mobs that do not memblur mid fight. Every SK, paladin, and extra warrior should be prepared in every fight that has a Rampage mob to hit the mob early with an ability to get on the hate list near the top.
PLEASE ask questions. PLEASE post any info that is missing.
Much of this information was taken from a post that was previously hosted on the steelwarriors boards/site. (Definitive guide to RAMPAGE - by Jilaman) While this was written back in PoP/Luclin era, the information is still valid in the most part. In some places as needed to clarification/updates are made at the end. This post will be updated as needed with additions/corrections made by anyone who provides valid info.
Original post:
--------------------------------------------------------------
1. Rampage only hits ONE person at a time. You will see a lot of folks claiming a Rampaging mob can attack more than one player at a time. They are dead wrong. All rampage that exists today in Luclin and all previous expansions attacks only ONE player, period. This is the second most common misconception about rampage. (There are mobs that AE rampage in PoP, but this was written before PoP)
2. Rampage IS a proc. Rampage procs off of the normal attacks made by the mob you are fighting. If that mob isn't hitting anyone, you won't see any rampage messages. Also, because Rampage is a proc, DEX debuffs and other spells that decrease proc rate can indeed lower the rampage rate. Slows also reduce rampage rate because they reduce the rate of the normal attacks that proc rampage in the first place.
3. Rampage NEVER hits the person who is currently being attacked by the mob. Your main tank will never be taking rampage damage while he has aggro on the rampaging mob.
4. Rampage is a SINGLE attack. The person who is being hit by rampage will be hit by one of the mob's normal hits. This attack can be blocked, dodged, parried, and riposted normally.
5. Rampage DOES have a range, and that range IS different from the mob's normal melee range. This range differs from mob to mob. Some mobs can hit you with their rampage attacks literally no matter where you are in the zone; they have unlimited rampage range. Other mobs have rampage range that is barely larger than their normal attack range. Rampage range usually is larger than melee range.
6. Rampage does NOT follow line of sight rules. For normal attacks, if the mob can't see you, it can't hit you. Rampage works differently, and it will hit you even if you are hiding behind objects. If you are in range, you will be hit.
7. Rampage DOES NOT key off the main hate list. This is the most common misconception about how Rampage works. Any mob that can rampage has TWO hate lists, not one. The mob itself keys off of the main hate list just as every other mob in the game always has. The second hate list is for Rampage, and it works VERY differently from the normal hate list. Understanding how this second hate list works is the key to managing rampaging mobs.
Here are the rules for how the rampage hate list works. These rules determine where the rampage damage goes.
1. The order of the rampage list is based upon the order in which players gain aggro. As soon as you attack the mob, heal someone who is being attacked by the mob, or do anything else that causes the mob to aggro, you will be placed in the next spot on the rampage list.
2. NOTHING will get you off of the Rampage list except for Memwipe. Period. Feign death MAY get you off the rampage list IF you are lucky enough to score a memwipe when you feign, and we all know that's a crapshoot at best. Even death does NOT ALWAYS remove you from the rampage list; many rampaging mobs will start beating on someone who died to rampage the instant they are resurrected. Rumblecrush is notorious for this particular behavior, so plan your battle rezzing with care and make sure you rez the dead outside rampage range.
3. Nothing you do will move you up or down the rampage list. Taunt, evade, jolt, and other methods of controlling aggro such as chain snaring, stunning, hate giving and hate taking spells, as well as all weapons with hate generating procs all have NO EFFECT WHATSOEVER on your position in the rampage list. Chain healing and chain nuking also have absolutely no effect on positions in the rampage list, although they will get you to the top of the main hate list fairly fast.
The list forms in the order the mob aggros people, and it stays in that form, never changing EXCEPT to remove those who have scored memwipes with Feign Death. You CAN clear the list by repeatedly casting memblur and memwipe on the mob you are fighting, BUT remember that this will also clear the main hate list and that can cause all kinds of problems.
Now, things to remember...
Remember, rampage DOES have a range. If you are taking rampage damage and move out of a mob's rampage range, it will start attacking the next person on the rampage list until you move back in range, then it will start beating on you again.
The rampage list is SET IN STONE. This means if you know the order the mob aggroed people, you know exactly the order the rampage attacks will follow. This means you can control it.
If you have Feign Death, and use it, you will NOT take any rampage damage while feigned. When you stand, you will immediately start taking rampage damage again UNLESS you scored a memwipe with Feign Death, in which case you are now at the very bottom of the rampage list. This is, of course, subject to the usual feign death bug... if the mob doesn't buy the feign for whatever reason, you will continue to take rampage damage while Feigned.
Monks usually pull Rampage tank duty, especially if they have Combat Agility 3. The reason for this is that they will get hit by precious few of the rampage attacks due to their unmatched combat avoidance.
The usual strategy...
First, everyone needs to make a hotkey to the effect of "TAKING RAMPAGE DAMAGE NOW" and spam it the instant they start taking rampage damage. Healers need to be ON THE BALL and tracking that message so they can keep whoever it is alive. As long as the person taking rampage damage is alive, in rampage range, and doesn't Feign Death, you have locked rampage attacks down to that single person.
When you engage a rampaging mob, have your main tank get aggro first. Immediately send in all of your Monks and have them attack ONCE only to make sure they get the mob's attention. Note, you MUST make sure your monks attack BEFORE the first heal lands on the tank, or else that healer is going to be the first to take rampage damage and die very quickly. With rooted mobs this is trivially easy to do... just have your main tank hit the mob with an arrow, and then each monk follows suit in exactly the order you want them to take rampage.
Once that is done, engage normally. The monks will spam their enrage hotkeys as they take rampage damage. As long as you have healers keeping up with it, you've got it locked down.
Clerics, this means you have two main tanks to keep alive. If you have both ramp and ma in group it can be helpful to pr ramp tank and stay on ma)
--------------------------------------------------------------
Things to clarify/update:
Fade changed the way people could drop off the Ramp list - with the most recent changes, Fade is not reliable to most classes if they happen to be the next on the Ramp list. The shaman, chanter, shadowknight, monk classes have abilities that will fully remove them from combat even against raid mobs (verify other classes please.) Items such as the Lingering Essence of Cazic Thule (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=112245) will mezz you and remove you from combat. There are also Feign Death potions - Planar Overdose (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=108258) that can feign death you, while not wiping your aggro immediately, it will after 1 min like standard feign death. Please post/update with any other clickies and abilities that are standard fare to lose aggro now.
In FL we like to have warriors, shadowknights, and paladins on the ramp list first - not so much monks these days. Warriors have the straight mitigation and defensive discs to survive. SKs and paladins have mitigation and defensive discs, while not as nice as the warrior set, increase the survivability. They also have the added bonus of spell, aa, and proc invulnerability. Every paladin and sk should work towards and have available to them the Divine Hammer of Consternation (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=12657) or the Corrupted Hammer of Consternation (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=123584)
If you are called on to Ramp tank - liberally apply your defensive discs, as mobs these days do hit quite hard and often on their ramp hits, and at times will land 1-4 hits in a row.
Rampage damage trigger and on who - attached below - Created by Zaknaffein. Gives a very basic breakdown of who is doing the hitting, who is being hit, and how much. Modify to your needs.
Now to examples as that helps people understand in many cases.
Lets say there are 10 people on a raid about to engage BigBadBoss00. Lets call them... Overeasy(war), Furro(cler), Curmugly(wiz), Dimbly(dru), Bdallya(chanter), Toransa(sham), Gimamam(sk), Maglor(pal), Mistatk(war), Sanolan(bard). BigBadBoss00 has the rampage ability. MTO is laid out as Overeasy, Mistatk, and Ramp is set as Maglor, Gimamam. Maglor would trigger the mob with attack on to be sure that he is getting the first hit in on the mob. Gimamam would be very shortly after with any method of getting on the aggro list - dot, arrow, melee hit, something. This would put the two of them as the first two on the ramp hate list, followed shortly by Overeasy since he is now picking up the mob to tank. Mistatk shoots it with an arrow as it gets picked up by OE. Bdallya, Toransa, Dimbly all cast debuffs on the mob now that its moving, and Furro starts healing. They are the next four on the list. Sanolan did not have his ae songs going yet, but started attacking when the mob was in camp, so he is next. Curmugly waits like a good dps until assist is called and is subsequently last on the list. The immediate effect is that the Ramp list is populated as follows:
1. Maglor - Currently being hit by Ramp damage.
2. Gimamam
3. Overeasy - Currently tanking.
4. Mistatk
5. Bdallya
6. Toransa
7. Dimbly
8. Furro
9. Sanolan
10. Curmugly
Well, Maglor didn't get a heal on time on a bad ramp round + AE and died, And Gimamam wasn't quick enough on the defensive and got eaten by the next ramp round. They get rezzed and start attacking again. The list has now shifted to make Overeasy the top of the ramp list - but since he is currently the active tank - he will not be hit by ramp + tank damage, the ramp hits would shift to the next in line.
1. Overeasy - Currently tanking.
2. Mistatk - Currently being hit by Ramp damage.
3. Bdallya
4. Toransa
5. Dimbly
6. Furro
7. Sanolan
8. Curmugly
9. Gimamam
10. Maglor
If OE called a tank swap and Mist picked it up - their positions on ramp list would not shift at all, but now that Mist is tanking - OE would now take the ramp damage.
1. Overeasy - Currently being hit by Ramp damage.
2. Mistatk - Currently tanking.
3. Bdallya
4. Toransa
5. Dimbly
6. Furro
7. Sanolan
8. Curmugly
9. Gimamam
10. Maglor
At this point - Gimamam and Maglor will NOT have ramp again until the other 8 people on the list are dead, currently tanking, or mem wiped off the ramp list.
If Overeasy had to run out of range for an emote - the ramp hits would fall to Bdallya until OE moved back into mob range.
Simple example, but should illustrate. For real raid purposes - expand this to 54 people.
Most times, debuffers/healers end up at the top of the list because of overzealousness, tank inaction, or tank death.
Rampage list is something fully controllable on mobs that do not memblur mid fight. Every SK, paladin, and extra warrior should be prepared in every fight that has a Rampage mob to hit the mob early with an ability to get on the hate list near the top.
PLEASE ask questions. PLEASE post any info that is missing.