Author Topic: Enchanter DPS & ADPS  (Read 12715 times)

Drogba

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Enchanter DPS & ADPS
« on: May 13, 2018, 03:00:29 AM »
Ok, so i have noticed that some of our enchanters are casting alliance + 3 dots prior to hitting burns, when i know that the gold standard for top ADPS groups is to get off haze & IOG well before that.

However, i didn't know 'why' this was the case.  So i spent some time talking with a personal friend, who is one of the best enchanters that i know 'Gotcharms', a raid leader of Valhalla on FV & Primal Brood on test server.

Here is what i learned from speaking to him, and most of this is directly from him, his own words:

If burning off the top, at most you want to waste maybe 5 seconds before you're hitting CH/iog and mindslash, so your wizards aren't beating it for 15 seconds while you setup a bunch of shit dots that kill everyone's dps

The ideal setup is, if you're burning off the top of an encounter: have dmg amp aura + mana recip up,cast dicho right before engage, mob gets tashed, pop ITC -> mind tempest -> robe -> iog -> CH -> mindslash -> strangulate -> mind slash -> strangulate -> strangulate -> mindslash -> repeat until itc fades, drop spell amp aura for twincast aura.
Always recast dichotomic the moment it repops.
Always recast Mindslash when it repops to proc synergy.

If all the enchanters in the raid use that lineup,
that robe click gets 10x the use, because its charges get eaten ONLY by mind storm ticks and chromatic haze'd mind slashes

strangulate and deluding constriction eat your chromatic haze charges.
Unless you are watching and timing it beautifully, you don't want to have them  up when you're hitting your big "here's 5m+ dmg in 1 second" button
because if they eat  a charge or two, you've f**ked yourself.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2018, 06:14:01 AM by Drogba »

Drogba

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Re: Enchanter DPS & ADPS
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2018, 03:10:46 AM »
his full walkthrough on Primal Brood can be found here, though it was written prior to RoS:  http://pb.gamerlaunch.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11297788&gid=518180
« Last Edit: May 14, 2018, 01:01:41 PM by Drogba »

Whosyrdaddy

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Re: Enchanter DPS & ADPS
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2018, 08:01:44 PM »
Drog, This is a great post.  I especially loved the link to the chanter's page you were referring.  I love learning new ways to improve myself and other chanters.  I know that I will try this out and I know it will be successful.  I urge the enchanters in FL to read up on this and try it out to make improvements for themselves.

Great post!!

Furro

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Re: Enchanter DPS & ADPS
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2018, 05:30:34 PM »
Thanks for posting an Enchanter DPS/ADPS guide, Drogba!  I've sticky posted this, so it stands out more.

Team Enchanter (and others!), feel free to reply with your feedback/thoughts as well.  I know our Enchanters co-ordinate and chat in FLCC.  I'm not sure how much discussion goes on around DPS/ADPS though.  So just putting it out there. :)

Thanks! :)

gotcharms

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Re: Enchanter DPS & ADPS
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2018, 10:48:52 PM »
I don't raid here, but I like that the Freelance forums are a repository for EQ-related information. I'm not the guild leader for VH btw, just one of the raid leads :)

As a side note, and to reinforce what Drogbaa's OP states, the order and speed of your burns are pretty crucial to your group's ADPS. We recently had an Enchanter applicant who was struggling to correctly order and fire their burns. In a side-by-side comparison, this error resulted in double-digit millions of damage lost per group member in his group. We're talking a timing difference of less than 20 seconds adding up to 50m+ damage lost in an encounter. It's that important.

This is a more current (as of Aug 2018, RoS) Enchanter guide. I would probably not use my old guide; it hasn't been updated for RoS and a lot has changed. Wrote it for the EQ forums and copy/pasta'd it here:

These are the things I look for when evaluating Enchanter raid performance. Note that this is purely from a utility perspective and is what I'd consider the "bare minimum" to look for. This is 100% caster focused. If your Enchanters are going into melee/hybrid/tank groups, recruit more casters or fire an Enchanter (pew pew).

This ended up being a lot longer than I'd intended, but it's pretty comprehensive so... enjoy. I also take back what I said in the above paragraph; if your Enchanters are nailing everything in this post, they're doing extremely well.

Auras - Twincast, Mana Reciprocation, and Bolstering Aura. In events where the group is burning "off the top," both Mana Reciprocation and Bolstering Aura should be up and running at least 3 ticks before the event starts. Activating them later than that will result in no benefit because they take time to actually pulse.

Once the Enchanter's own ITC (Improved Twincast) has faded, immediately drop Bolstering Aura and activate Twincast. I generally keep all three of these auras on my spell bar at the start of the event so I don't have to bother with hotswapping.

The other auras are largely useless. Arcane Disjunction can sometimes have some *very* niche uses, but 99.9% of the time is wrong.

Activated ADPS - This will vary from guild to guild and event to event. Generally speaking, Illusions of Grandeur + Chromatic Haze should fire immediately after the group's Druid has used GBW. If Auspice is also running, hold Third Spire until IoG fades (if getting multiple back-to-back Auspices). If you want to get really technical, if you also have a Bard, hold Third Spire until after either A) Fierce Eye has faded or B) Auspice fades. Some groups may want Third Spire along with IoG if there is no Auspice running. Communicate with your group. Take the lead if nobody knows wtf you are talking about.

Dicho should always be fired prior to starting burns. So if you're burning off the top, fire this a second or two before the event starts. If you're burning in the middle of an event, be on top of your timing.

Your actual activated burn order should look like this: Dicho -> ITC +IoG -> Robe Click (rotate casts if other Enchanters are using theirs) -> Chromatic Haze -> Mindslash

We do it like this so that we squeeze a little extra personal DPS out of our big primary "**** you!" burn, and so that the group's Druid can successfully set up two enormous DoT ticks for their Nature's Blistering Wrath DoT.

Calculated Insanity gives you 100% crit rate regardless of additional modifiers, so try to use it when nothing else is running.

I generally encourage Enchanters to take control of their group's ADPS coordination if no one else does. Understanding how your group burns and why they want things at certain times is a huge part of being a good Enchanter.

Passive ADPS - Always. Cast. Offensive. Spells. Your group members gain huge benefits from both Gracious Gift of Mana, Gift of Hazy Thoughts, and Beguiler's Synergy. If you aren't always channeling an offensive spell, you are actively losing your group DPS (and your own).

Caster order 1:
(Dicho on Cooldown) -> Mindslash -> Mindsunder -> Strangulate
Caster order 2:
(Dicho on Cooldown) -> Mindslash -> Strangulate -> Strangulate

CO1 is for fulminating Alliance, low mana pools, or during Calculated Insanity (strangulate does not gain CI benefit).
CO2 is for everything else. It is mana intensive, does not fulminate alliance, and will not use all 27 CI charges.
This is largely preference. I swap between the two on the fly.

Cast Dicho on cooldown. This spell should never have a fully refreshed gem.

Demand that people pay you in Krono to receive Night's Endless Terror casts. Only accept payment up front. No pay, no play.

Debuffs - Assign one Enchanter to keep Deluding Constriction on whatever the big bad boss you're fighting is. Work a Mental Contortion rotation if you have 3 Enchanters for 100% uptime. Assign one Enchanter (usually the newest one) to cast Demolished Consciousness (this is a level 97 spell) on the big bad boss in order to proc Somnolence. The spell itself doesn't matter, just the Somnolence proc.

Assign someone to cast spell Tash on bosses, or if your guild is very slow at killing adds. For most guilds, Bite of Tashani (AE AA Tash) will work on adds.

Only Tash is 100% necessary, but it's good practice to know how to execute on all of these debuffs. This is especially relevant for guilds who struggle with content, or during the initial expansion race when everyone is wearing last expansion's gear.

Buffs - Clarity + Haste on everyone. Might as well have one person hit Glyph Spray before an event. The rest is situational and varies by guild/event. Pick the most ambitious Enchanter to spell/dot shield the raid.

Hit Reactive Rune if your group is getting pummeled by AEs or DoTs. If things get really bad, keep up a spell/dot rune on the group, because only Necros can DPS when they are dead. Be aware that your entire group will lose DPS if you have to do this.

Also note that there is no current content raid encounter that requires you to maintain a spell/dot shield on your group if your group has a body temperature of 98 degrees. If you're consistently having to do this to survive, have a talk with you group about not dying so much.

Give your best Beastlord Horrifying Visage. Do not tell them you did this.

Rebuffs - I'm... not really a stickler about this. The responsible way to do this is to have one Enchanter assigned to haste recasts, and one Enchanter assigned to clarity recasts. Refresh Clarity on your group or clerics if they die, it's not much but w/e. Make a judgement call on re-hasting melees. They're 100% **** after a death, you putting haste on them will make them 95% ****. Weigh time to completion vs time lost casting haste.

Crowd Control - Know how a stun rotation works (not going into detail here, it's not hard to figure out). Practice crowd control in nasty situations. I like sending applicants into tough zones and tell them to work from point a to point b without invis. Howling Stones is great for this. Don't ever punt something unless you are 100% certain you know what you're doing.

Use your head, CC is the easiest thing we do.

Gina Triggers - Gina is really helpful for Enchanters. I think a lot of classes can get away with not using it, and in a lot of cases Enchanters can, too, but I use it on every raid.

I have a mostly updated GINA pack publicly available here:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/file3.guildlaunch.net/518180/enchanter_trigs_4-3-2017.gtp

It's 34 Enchanter-specific triggers. This is not a "plug and play" package. It requires some setup because it makes heavy use of timers. This is the (old) example image I use to show where everything goes:



It's very rare that you'd ever have all of those running at once, but that's where everything goes. CC related breaks top-center. ADPS timers right-center. Debuff timers lower-right-center. DoT fades left-center. GoM/Haze Center. NET timer upper-right-center. Stun timers (for stun rotation coordination) bottom-center.

You can set yours up however you'd like, that's just how I do mine and what I feel is relevant to track during a raid.

« Last Edit: April 10, 2019, 01:57:30 AM by gotcharms »

Furro

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Re: Enchanter DPS & ADPS
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2018, 04:02:52 PM »
 
Thanks for taking the time to write up a comprehensive DPS/ADPS post, gotcharm! :)



I generally encourage Enchanters to take control of their group's ADPS coordination if no one else does. Understanding how your group burns and why they want things at certain times is a huge part of being a good Enchanter.

This is a good point.  Regardless whether it's an Enchanter in group taking the lead, I think group members having a quick pow-wow during prep/downtime is useful.



Debuffs - Assign one Enchanter to keep Deluding Constriction on whatever the big bad boss you're fighting is. Work a Mental Contortion rotation if you have 3 Enchanters for 100% uptime. Assign one Enchanter (usually the newest one) to cast Demolished Consciousness (this is a level 97 spell) on the big bad boss in order to proc Somnolence. The spell itself doesn't matter, just the Somnolence proc.


We do debuff assigns.  But to my knowledge, we don't currently do a rotation on MC.  Unless Enchanters have been working that out and I've overlooked the chat.  I'll try and make a mental note and ask our Enchanters.



I have a mostly updated GINA pack publicly available here:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/file3.guildlaunch.net/518180/enchanter_trigs_4-3-2017.gtp

It's 34 Enchanter-specific triggers. This is not a "plug and play" package. It requires some setup because it makes heavy use of timers. This is the (old) example image I use to show where everything goes:


If you want, feel free to edit your post and attach the file.  In the event you rename/delete it on your AWS, it'll still be available for others here.



Raccoo

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Re: Enchanter DPS & ADPS
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2019, 05:05:56 AM »
One thing to add in this, and other ADPS classes, is to make sure you and your group members are close enough to receive the ADPS. It does no good if they are OOR of your super ADPS!

Rexa

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Re: Enchanter DPS & ADPS
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2020, 03:33:40 AM »
Thank you so much for these wonderful guides. I came back to game in Jan of 2019 after a 7+ year hiatus. Such guides, along with the guidance of my CL and other wonderful players, helped get me back on track. It took me maybe a little under a year to get my full reflexes back, and I still don't consider myself a perfect player by any means. However, I eventually developed some tricks of my own which I would like to share. I will avoid re-hashing too much of what Gotcharms said here. I have been approached often by other enchanters on the server that I have grouped with and on various open raids about how I do some things "so darn fast."

First and foremost, Composite Reinforcement and Mindrift should always be on cool-down (unless you're mezzing or have some other duties or are in a non-caster group of course). Mindrift with max Beguiler Synergy AAs procs Synergy for your group 100% of the time, and additionally has a chance to proc haze on top of it. Synergy adds 55% to the base damage of one fire, magic or ice spells that your caster DPS group members cast.

A multi-bind key is the answer to always keeping Composite Reinforcement and Mindrift on cool-down with less effort. Please review my two attachments to this post. For sake of following along, I am using the first 4 spell-gems slots as well as the first 4 slots on my Hotbar 1. As you can see, I have my "G" keyboard key bound to use my first four Hotbar 1 slots. It is important that the spells on the Hotbar slots are in the correct order of: Composite Reinforcement -> Mindrift -> Mindslash -> Pulmonary Grip.

The reason I use such a multi-bind is that:
a) I never have to worry about hitting separate buttons for my dissident and mindrift spells to keep them on cooldown/greyed-out
b) Alliances are easier to manage... since again, I never have to worry about casting things separately
c) You are casting at a HIGHER rate than manually clicking or using social keys with spell casts. If you are prone to lag, you'll also notice a drastic improvement. Think about the time it takes for you to drag your little mouse cursor from some end of your screen to another!

You can additionally make another multi-bind key, if you fancy, for: Composite Reinforecement -> Mindrift -> Pulmonary Grip -> Pulmonary Grip
and have it on a different hotbar, let's say Hotbar 2. This one is extremely situational and usually when you're not trying to fulmigate/run alliance. Unfortunately, it's also far more mana-intensive. Works better for adds/trash that die fast.

I should note that mashing a multi-bind key does not entirely exclude you from manual casting. You still are very much responsible for continuing to stare at your Composite and Mindrift gems to make sure they are greyed out before casting miscellaneous things inbetween that you may need to do - at which point you stop mashing the multi-bind key. I am usually pretty slick about when I cast personal dots (like Mindcoil) and rebuffing people that send me tells in order to maintain the highest amount of Dissident and synergy procs as possible. This is more of my play-style (an opinion if you wish). My general spell casting may look something like this:

Composite
Mindrift
Mindslash
Pulmonary Grip

Composite (probably still on cooldown)
Mindrift
Mind Coil
Pulmonary Grip

Composite (probably still on cooldown)
Mindrift
Mindslash
Pulmonary Grip

Composite (probably still on cooldown)
Mindrift
Mindslash
Pulmonary Grip

Composite
Mind Rift
Rebuffing some dude with Haste that sent me a tell
Pulmonary Grip

... so you kind of get the drift where I'm going with this. Hope this helps!
« Last Edit: January 23, 2021, 08:03:49 PM by Rexa »

Faldyarr

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Re: Enchanter DPS & ADPS
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2021, 03:19:25 AM »
so how ive taken the above is as follows

if its a burn off the start fight i cast
Tash, Slow, push my hotkey which casts Dico, Improved Twincast, Illusions of Grandur, Robe Clicky, Mindslash, Chromatic Haze, Mindrift

if a burn later, skip the tash and slow part.

my normal dps is pushing a single button which is multibound to spells gems that are in the following order, dico, minddrift, mindslash, pulminary grip (spells gems that all are bound to same key, the game will cast only one spell, and will cast which ever spell gem is up that is lower (gem 1, gem 2 etc)

my spells for crusader are as follows
tash
dico (composite reinforcement)
minddrift
mindslash
Pulminary grip
legion of cekenar
devisers auspice
haste
clarity
poly rune
shield of destiny
mana rep aura
charm

obviously for other raids that last spell gem can be changed to whatever, and if the 2 spell guards arent needed for the raid they can be changed to something else the particular raid needs.

unless we have 4 enchanters present alliance is pretty useless but that multibind will allow it to fulminate if we have enough enchanters present.

Rexa

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Re: Enchanter DPS & ADPS
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2021, 07:33:23 AM »
Let me clarify something for your Faldyarr.

Mindrift, Mindslash and PG are ALL important for your group aDPS. You will not have any downtime casting a spell on refresh.

Mindrift will be the only spell that procs Synergy, but ALL 3 spells have a chance to proc Gift of Hazy Thoughts. If you look at your Gift of Hazy Thoughts AA which is maxed out I assume, it even states that it's limited to level 90 spells and higher.

So casting one less spell means you are giving the group one less chance at Gift of Hazy Procs.

I haven't really parsed out using Mindrift, PG, PG. But that rotation will drain you out of mana faster if an event is taking forever to beat. The only upside with this rotation is that you can proc three 115 GoMs for the rest of the group rather than just two (since the 110 nuke only gives the 110 GoM instead).

Keep in mind that Mind Coil also gives Gift of Hazy Thoughts (i know the description in the AA says direct damage spells, but it works on Mind Coil as well). It also procs 115 GoM

In conclusion - the more dps spells you cast, the more aDPS you give the group. Just keep in mind that you must give top priority to keeping Composite/Dissident and Mindrift on cooldown as best as you can.



« Last Edit: March 01, 2021, 07:48:26 AM by Rexa »

Maym

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Re: Enchanter DPS & ADPS
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2021, 07:37:01 PM »
Faldyarr et al,

My typical raid lineup is :

Mindrift
Mindslash
Mind Coil
Pulmonary
Composite
Rune Unity
Mana Rep Aura
Twincast Aura
Fortifying Aura
Coalition
Night's Perpetual Terror
Tash
Haste

Depending on the raid setup and # of enchanters with group I will adjust - (-auras + utility)

I think not having mind coil is sub-optimal and would definitely include.

My spam key is

/cast composite
/cast mindrift
/necromantic dragon bone
/pulmonary

Last I parsed, Mindrift PG PG was slightly worse for personal dps when paired with nothing other than tash but it wasn't a huge difference and it wasn't a long parse and the procs and crit rate all favored the Mind Mind rotation (152k for Mind PG PG) versus (158 for Mind Mind PG). If you have Calculated Insanity up you definitely want to use the Mind / Mind / Rotation since PG doesn't benefit from the crit increase.

I also did the math on Coalition at some point - from what I recall, coalition is a net dps increase (for me) under the following 2 conditions (1) It's replacing a PG cast (2) At least 3 qualifying spells land while coalition is up. So I almost always have it memmed for raids unless wiping to AE damage of some sort is expected.

For your initial burn you should cast Mindrift and then immediately trigger Chromatic Haze. The buff from Beguiler's is unique in that it stacks with just about everything. Including haze. We don't benefit from Beguiler's but your group will. You should also use Pulmonary as your personal cast after you Haze - it will provide the biggest output without waiting on a refresh.

EDIT: I think PG is actually the biggest hitter (period) after haze based on somewhat limited parsing, which doesn't make numeric sense. Anyone have additional data?

I've toyed around with the idea of making GINA triggers to track Beguiler's Synergy in 2+ enchanter groups so a cast doesn't get wasted. But it's already a pretty hectic environment and I don't know that an extra audio trigger / timer is helpful.

The key point that Rexa makes that I totally agree with is ABC - Always be casting!
« Last Edit: March 01, 2021, 07:43:48 PM by Maym »

Sancus

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Re: Enchanter DPS & ADPS
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2021, 03:44:27 PM »
EDIT: I think PG is actually the biggest hitter (period) after haze based on somewhat limited parsing, which doesn't make numeric sense. Anyone have additional data?
This is because Enhanced Torment focuses the nuke portion of Pulmonary Grip, in addition to the DoT. That AA line was changed with ToV launch (along with other class's comparable lines) from duration extension to foci intended to approximate the damage from duration extension. However, the focus cannot be limited to only the DoT portion of the spell, and therefore the nuke on Pulmonary Grip has a 50% SPA 461 focus (which has near perfect scaling).

Maym

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Re: Enchanter DPS & ADPS
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2021, 09:53:20 PM »
Ahh, good to know. I would not have suspected that. My best guess was that the critical affliction bonus was being inappropriately applied to the DD component.

Rexa

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Re: Enchanter DPS & ADPS
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2021, 08:34:02 PM »
A lot of knowledge posted was before the introduction of the 4th/last rank of Enhanced Torment and when people were still working on buying it or examining it I guess.

The way you can test it out is as follows: use a 120 combat dummy in guild hall. Have a ranger hit you with Auspice, Druid hit you with Group Wolf, and your own IoG. Assuming all of these are maxxed rank of course. Now you're at 100% DD crit chance. Since you're at a 100% crit chance here, it's fair to say that only casting like 10 of each spell will give you a good enough idea.

Make sure to tash and have tashan's linger cry (max rank) on the dummy. This is the only debuff on the dummy.

This was a test I did maybe like 2 or 3 weeks ago.  I did not have gift of hazy procs on nor my auras up as I didn't want to interfere with the numbers. I would simply clicky hazy thoughts off for the next spell cast. I'm also maxed on all AA (so Drown and Mindsunder line is done) and I have the current type 3 augs for both my Mindrift and PG (again, just so people can get a good comparison).

-----------------------------------------------------

Pulmonary Grip Test

1. 803305 points of chromatic damage (Lucky Critical)

2. 757748 points of chromatic damage (Critical)

3. 769126 points of chromatic damage (Critical)

4. 756054 points of chromatic damage (Critical)

5. 790999 points of chromatic damage (Critical)

6. 806258 points of chromatic damage (Lucky Critical)

7. 801142 points of chromatic damage (Lucky Critical)

8. 775660 points of chromatic damage (Critical)

9. 805054 points of chromatic damage (Lucky Critical)

10. 760652 points of chromatic damage (Critical)
-----------------------------------------------------

Mindrift Test

1. 732920 points of chromatic damage (Critical)

2. 768142 points of chromatic damage (Lucky Critical)

3. 731133 points of chromatic damage (Critical)

4. 752485 points of chromatic damage (Lucky Critical)

5. 702468 points of chromatic damage (Critical)

6. 691154 points of chromatic damage (Critical)

7. 733034 points of chromatic damage (Lucky Critical)

8. 735007 points of chromatic damage (Lucky Critical)

9. 736493 points of chromatic damage (Lucky Critical)

10. 742448 points of chromatic damage (Critical)
-----------------------------------------------------

So yes - PG is better. I have long-since changed my burn to include PG as the next spell I am casting after hitting Chromatic Haze.

I have not really gone in depth here telling people what my "real" burn strategy is because most of the times the people I have tried to teach are either lagging or confused or don't understand the logic behind it. It was really more for people to understand the basics and not entirely neglect the import things, but my burn order now looks something like this:

Composite/Dissident - ITC - IoG - Robe Click - Mindrift - Chromatic Haze - Pulmonary Grip

What this also does is give ample time for your Druid to already have NFW on the mob by the time you hit Chromatic Haze so their 1st tick of the dot benefits from the CH. Additionally, it also gives ample time for the rest of your group to already be done clicking their abilities and be ready to actually land their big bang damage spell to utilize CH.

I am seeing enchanters on FL still use IoG and Haze right off the bat together and virtually half the group can't even use CH properly. Ideally, you want somewhere between a 3 to 5 second gap from  when you hit IoG and then when you hit Chromatic Haze. This takes timing and skill as well as better understanding of what the rest of your casters need to do before you hit Chromatic Haze.

Mindrift takes 2 seconds for me to cast (and I am pre-buffing group with Beguiler's Synergy). The Robe Click is like a half a second click. Factoring in global cooldowns and what not, I'm usually around the 4 second mark (after hitting IoG) when i finally give the group Chromatic Haze.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2021, 09:14:01 PM by Rexa »