Where is the honestly anymore

[Donora Danin]

2/4 in the evening was my first day back to EQ in quite some time.

I was hanging around PoK when I hear shouts for a random pickup raid (not guild sponsored mind you). I replied, "sure, why not" and I was invited to the raid.

We all rush to our destination and begin preparations to start pulling mobs. However, just as we're starting to pull mobs, the Raid leader says that we each need to go over loot rules and DKP on their website.....

I'm not sure how I am suppose to read this website, plus deal with the raid instructions at the same time.

When you see the listing for yesterdays raid, you'll notice all the names on there have high amounts of DKP saved up, so it is near impossible for a new person they pickup in POK, to win anything in their first 2 weeks.

A pickup raid should be fair to those who can't raid with your main core every day. Random loot to those who need has always been the fair way to do things.

When I look at your DKP listing now, I still do not see my name on the list. Am I to guess that is because I have not raiding with this group long enough to deserve points?

[Bumkus]

1st i want to say welcome back to eq.  lots of new stuff with House of Thule so feel free to ask questions.

Furro generally posts targets and some sort of strategy for intendended targets on the website so people can prep for the events.  EQ raids have gotten real emote heavy so preppeing ahead of time is a big help.

If you're not set up, people will generally try to help while the raid sets up.

I'm not the raid leader, so I don't want to speak for Furro, but I believe the DKP system is intended to help the raid force progress more as a whole.  A lot of EQ raids are really gear and dps checks.  UF was especially rough on tanks when we first started.  When too many people step in with an alt, grab a loot and disappear, it can really stall out progression of a raid force. 

I think a lot of people that have accumalated DKP have done so because they generally like the events, the people and the raid leadership.  DKP just sort of accumalates while your out there having fun.

If you raided with FL yesterday, your name will show up in the DKP list.  Furro probably hasn't gotten around to it.  I wish I could call him a slacker, but he really does a lot of background work for these raids.

Anyway, if you want to see what people are like, you should idle in FLRaids:raids channel.  A lot of people idle there, so you can ask questions or maybe pick up some group invites.

[Furro]

 
Hi Donora!

Thanks for your interest in Freelance raids, and for attending on Friday.

Obviously you have some concerns and possibly misunderstandings as to our DKP system.  I appreciate your post, and I'll do my best below to address each of your points.

...

We all rush to our destination and begin preparations to start pulling mobs. However, just as we're starting to pull mobs, the Raid leader says that we each need to go over loot rules and DKP on their website.....

I'm not sure how I am suppose to read this website, plus deal with the raid instructions at the same time.

For a newcomer, there are two ways to find out our loot rules.  Both methods are covered in /raidsay just prior to the raid instructions.  I suspect that you missed the "short version" method given at the time.  The reason the shorter version is available is to avoid having to read the website during raid instructions.

As a reference, for an in game "short version" of our loot rules, do the following: /tell FLBot loot rules.

The reason these methods are given at the time, is to provide access to the necessary information that leads to full disclosure of our loot system.  This is to help ensure there are no misunderstandings at the time of item distribution.

I later realized that it seemed to a shame anyway. When you see the listing for yesterdays raid, you'll notice all the names on there have high amounts of DKP saved up, so it is near impossible for a new person they pickup in POK, although they announce as a pickup raid in POK, to gain any amount of DKP,when they pickup random people in POK.

What you need to do is sort the listing by "Last Raid" column on the right hand side, from most recent to oldest.  Scan the first 100+ members, and you'll see a WIDE range of DKP holdings.  When you sort by highest DKP, you get an inaccurate view of the system, because it picks up inactive members and their DKP.

I recommend also clicking on "Item History", and view what the prices items are actually going for.  Most of those 10's you see are the results of /random winners.  All the others above 10 DKP are bids via the DKP state, and you'll notice they're not over the top bids. 

Earning DKP is very quick within this system.  With items going fairly cheap, it's entirely possible (and happens), that newcomers bid and win on items for only 20-30 DKP.  Earning that amount of DKP can be done in 2-3 nights, sometimes less since the earnings fluctuate based on spending.

A pickup raid should be fair to those who can't raid with your main core every day. Random loot to those who need has always been the fair way to do things.

You're more than welcome to start your own guild and use whatever DkP system you want.

Just to be clear, the system works in TWO states.  For every target/event, there's a chance the loot contents will be distributed via /random 1000, or DKP.  The chance is a 70/30 split, based on a /random roll done at the time of distribution.

The "Random" aspect is in play within the system for the very purpose of providing a "fair" method for those who are either new and/or unable to attend regularly.

On Friday, you just happened to attend a raid that landed DKP.  The funny thing is, and a running joke, is that I'm terrible luck as a /randomer, as a result often land /random state! 

To address your other comment about starting a guild and using whatever system I want.  That's all fine, but the point is, this is an Open Raid system, and as such it includes both Random 1000 and DKP for loot distribution with fairness in mind.

When I look at your DKP listing now, I still do not see my name on the list. Am I to guess that is because I have not raiding with this group long enough to deserve points? That should does sound like guild rules to me, and not freelance raiding.

I do DKP/Loot entries the next day.  This is why your name hasn't yet appeared in the system.  It has nothing to do with the reasons you alluded to above.  The fact is, DKP takes me 45 mins to 1.5 hours to do for each night we raid.  So clearly I can't do this up at the time of the raid, nor after due to the late hour.

My only suggestion here is, please wait and your name will appear the next day at some point when the raids have been entered.

I had heard you guys were honorable, but my first impression was anything such.

As important as first impressions are, I hope that I've answered your concerns within this post to your satisfaction.

Thanks agains for your interest in our raids.  You're welcome to attend future events.  As always, questions and comments are appreciated.

Take care, and I hope to see you in game!

[frostfox]

i was in don's group that night and i guess me and nuba didn't do the best job of explaining .. things though we tried .. it was a busy and exciting night .. for us so .. i would hope at some point we will be forgiven..

and i did speak to this last night but i did want to say it agian.

i Know when you saw the .. flash in pok or lobby .. that said open raid .. it was percieved as a pick up raid .. to be frank about that i am not sure how the cazic server uses the term but .. a pick up raid to me is a raid that is thrown together and on average randomly ..

Freelance is an OPEN team .. that being said it is a very Organized clean long standing team. many members  have been with freelance for years.  and while we love the open system ,, you don't gotta fill out an app or worry that real life is going to screw you with a attendance percentage ( we do take them but don't dump folks for having it low )
we are still a Team .. and in saying that.
WE would love to see you back  freelance is a great group of folks i agree idle in the channel see how we interact with eachother .. please ..
even if you don't have a lot of time i think that starting to get to know the freelance team and maybe making a raid when you can .. as a returning player you will find it is a awesome choice to get your feet back into the game with the raiding aspect and make a heck of a lot of new friends. !!!

[Donora Danin]

Yes, I viewed item history page, I see that decent gear values near 50+pts. Next, when I view standing by last raid, I see the average raiders have around 100 + pts. Of course, the worst part is, I received 7pt for raiding 1 night.

I guess new raiders will need to raid for at least 8 days to collect enough DKP to have a shot at the 50pt gear.

Unfortunately, there are plenty of raiders with 300+ pts saved. So, it would seem that any new raider will need to be OK with the hand-me-downs, the core group does not want.

I was hoping for a freelance raid to honestly give me the opportunity to have a fair share at loot like anyone else. However, it seems that I will still need to raid 7 days a week, just to keep up.

Also note, I see you have plans to clear dkp for inactive raiders, what are your thoughts on this?

[Huevos]

Yes, I viewed item history page, I see that decent gear values near 50+pts. Next, when I view standing by last raid, I see the average raiders have around 100 + pts. Of course, the worst part is, I received 7pt for raiding 1 night.

I guess new raiders will need to raid for at least 8 days to collect enough DKP to have a shot at the 50pt gear.

Unfortunately, there are plenty of raiders with 300+ pts saved. So, it would seem that any new raider will need to be OK with the hand-me-downs, the core group does not want.
I was hoping for a freelance raid to honestly give me the opportunity to have a fair share at loot like anyone else. However, it seems that I will still need to raid 7 days a week, just to keep up.

Also note, I see you have plans to clear dkp for inactive raiders, what are your thoughts on this?

Nope to the bolded part. First timers get loot all the time via random. If you look at the top DKP people some don't raid or have low raid %. If you sort by DKP earned you will see people with under 50 dkp totals. It's a mix of who has DKP and who doesn't.

Also, FL was a /rand team for every raid 2 years ago. The DKP was developed for a reason.

[Breniar]

To the OP: Freelance really is a great group of people to raid with.  I understand the concerns you have but give them another raid or two and you might change your mind.  You won't find a better open raid out there on any server I wager.

[Rinvarien]

To draw a long bow, if you don't like their loot system, don't go?

You seem to be severely concerned about loot.  Raiding isn't mostly about loot, it's about people banding together to do something difficult or things that cannot normally do on their own.  People cherish the experience more then they do so the loot.  If raiding just primary about looting items then each event would drop a lot more items then they normally do.

Freelance's loot distribution system is very fair.  It weights it to people who attend their raids more frequently, but it also throws a bone to those who are new.  You wouldn't get that sort of distribution anywhere else.  I've seen first time raiders pick up items on their first night many a time.

And before you call me a regular raider, I perhaps raid with Freelance once a week / fortnight.

[Donora Danin]

Huevos, excuse my ignorance on the matter, but I was never looking at the top dkp people.

I was sorting by selecting "Standings" and then filter by selecting "Last Raid" so that 2/5/2011 was at the top.

When I look at raiders from 2/5/2011, and view their current pts. I see over 24 raiders with 100+ pts.

I'm not sure how a new person can expect to outbid for armor over these folks, with prices reaching 50, 70+ pts. per item. The only choice I see, is raid for at least two weeks and save points.

Also, the loot that I did see being random the other night was purely augs. Even the shards themselves were going for dkp.

I'm not saying my only interest is loot. Hell, I lose random rolls just like the next person.

But,

Gone are the days, that a new comer can join a pickup raid, and win a shiny new toy.

I remember back in the day, hearing the excitement from a new player who just won an uber item from a lucky roll on their first raid. Their first response is always, "I never win anything!!" and it just makes their day.

I was really hoping for a freelance raid that might give people this opportunity. And, I become really excited when I heard the call for the pickup raid in POK. I wish I could feel that excitement again.

Thank you for listening.

[frostfox]

ok lets put it this way .. this last week just this last week and the week before i took a mount , and a mask.. both of which i paid 10 dkp for .. becuase it went to random .. then i won a posh ring col 3 clicky from solt for 10 as well .. i pretty much earned the dkp each time by raiding the night.  i really do think you hit the night of big dkp which means furro rolled well. which we were kinda of excited about becuase a lot of us do show up a lot and loose a roll to someone whose first time it is or thier alt .. heaven forbid , and that is why the dkp was put into the system because the team was having probs moving forward in progression.
the short and blunt of it is to keep it moving smothly we needed something for the guy who just shows up and is new and the guy who shows up every week.
now yeah i know you were hoping for a pick up raid but you ended up on the dkp night. give it a few more shots . and freelance is your best bet for getting raiding gear like that it really is. if you dont want to be bogged down in a raiding guild raiding 3 to 6 mandatory nights  here we offer three non mandatory nights of raiding good content still current to most of the raiidng guilds on the server but with out the hassle or the preasure. just good fun with good people.

that being said if truly random is what you are looking for , COP , runs random raids on monday and sunday and we invite folks to come. lol but if you dont like the freelance crew you might be disapointed because we are all so close that on sunday and monday it is the same faces espeacialy my big mouth lol

when i talked to you in game i felt bad becuase we really didnt' have time to tell all about the freelance raid and the system at the time. i felt bad you thought you were at  a pick up raid. 
but honestly i love my team and i do really thing this is the best place for you to be if you will give us another shot.

that being said when i go look at dkp i never look at folks who dont compete with me .. you are a caster look at the caster drops and what they went for and the folks attendance that show up that are casters. it might help weed it down.

[Nimolak]

I really don;t see what you don't understand or why u keep trying to argue with something we've explain to you time again.

Yes your first raid with freelance was a dkp bid night mostly well that's life stuff happens and comes up. the dkp nights are for those who have been with freelance for awhile and yes it is totally fair to everyone in raid because it rewards those who have stuck with freelance. Also dont complain about how long its gonna take u to catch up to the veteran people they vetarn people have that dkp because they've been for for years, and yea ur gonna have to work for ur dkp and stick around if u want to spend im sorry if u thought u were gonna get handed free loot but sorry that's not how it works.

Now for the /ran  you were only seeing purity augs rolled for b/c we always roll for them to try twist or words by saying thats they only thing we /ran for cause thats how it always is. the Loot system is a 70/30 chacne for dkp/ /ran ( which furro already greatly detailed explained for you)

I don;t know how else you would like us to explain it to you but if ur gonna just gonna show up and complain about our system's which you seem to be the only one and not getting loot well then you can hit the road imo. Freelance is based on A LOT of old time EQ players that are respect and yes a lot of new peeps to but i will not have someone whine and complain on their first night show up at raids.

Sorry im being blunt to you but it takes commitment, patient, adversity, and balls to raid so it you can't handle that, well go try HoT T4 i hear they got some good group g gear.

[nubatamax]

Well, I told you in group twice that you have 30% chance to /random on each event, but I'm not sure you understood that part.

Furro always rolls a number prior to divvying our loots, and if his roll turns out to be < 300, the items in that events are all /randomed. On the night you showed up, Furro rolled 300+ every time ( which is kind of rare ), so the loots happened to be DKP'ed. Still, you did have 30% chance, although Furro's dice wasn't in your favour unfortunately for you. You were just out of luck, just in the same way as you /randomed and rolled very low.

I didn't have time to explain about this Furro's status-determining roll the above when we were busy, but he broadcasted how it works after we won the event (he does every time). I hope you understand that at least you did have a CHANCE to win item on that day.