Author Topic: Freelance DKP & Random  (Read 37364 times)

Furro

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Re: Freelance DKP
« Reply #30 on: February 22, 2009, 05:06:10 AM »
  
Incorporated the system into the main Freelance site.  Added appropriate links to the document above.

Added the EQDKP Database link to this document as well.




- Furro

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Re: Freelance DKP & Random
« Reply #31 on: April 19, 2009, 07:58:28 PM »
  
We've been entering DKP for a bit now, and it's close to the point where I'd like to start the 2nd state Bidding portion.

Before we do this, there's two issues I need to address:

1)  Ties between Bidders

To be as simple as possible, I'll give an example:

- Item opens at 10 DKP.
- It goes through some rounds of bidding.

Comes to a bid round where two (or more) players all have equal Current DKP holdings, and have reached their bid limits.

Who wins the item?


Answer:  I'm thinking it should fall back on our /random ruleset between only the tied bidders in this case.  With the stipulation of whoever wins the /random, their last bid (ie, maximum Current DKP holdings), will be the cost of the item.

This way, it's not based on RA/LRA or anything locking out short attendance players.  

With the cost still having a DKP assigned (based on bidders), it can prevent abuse/collusion of max bidding (with those of equal holdings), for an ends to obtain an item at a low DKP cost.

Even though this scenerio may not come up often or ever,  I want the policy in place for if/when it does.


2)  No bidders on an item

Fairly straight forward question here.  What if we open bidding, and no one bids on the item?

Answer:  If no bids are made after three rounds.  We should 'open to all' the item for bid again, to those who have won an item already.


3) No bidders on an 'open to all' item

So, the item is open to all, for whatever reason, no one bids on it.  What now?

Answer: Fall back on /random ruleset, with normal associated DKP base value applied to winner of the item.



It's going to take some patience at the start of this bidding state.  As not everyone is used to it, and it's alot more work for me to do during the raid.  What I'm going to work through also, is updating our /rs Loot Rules, to reflect the 2 states.   Just how I go over /random 1k, I want it absolutely clear how we do DKP, so everyone is informed.

Your insight is always welcome, and appreciated.  I'll leave this posting for a week to see any feedback before implementing it into the DKP system.

If you see something I haven't covered in the DKP system, please post about it here in this thread so it can be address.


Thanks for your time,

- Furro


« Last Edit: April 19, 2009, 08:02:17 PM by Furro »

Furro

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Re: Freelance DKP & Random
« Reply #32 on: May 10, 2009, 08:52:38 PM »
  
In reference to my above reply, I've incorporated the following into the Freelance Hybrid DKP System:

Added sub-sections 'Ties between Bidders', 'No bidders on an item', under section 'DKP Loot Ruleset'

Quote
Ties between Bidders
 
Where two (or more) players have equal Current DKP holdings, and have reached their maximum limits for bidding (ie, they bid all their DKP).

In this situation, a winner is deteremined via /random ruleset between only the tied bidders.  The item cost used is the tied bid value.

Tied Bidders Format:

Tied Maximum Bids! - ONLY: < player_names >, /random 1000 now on < item_link > for < tied_bid_value > DKP!

Last call (tied bidders only) on < item_link >, for < tied_bid_value > DKP!

./random CLOSED on < item_link >

Congrats < player_name > on < item_link > for  < tied_bid_value > DKP.


No bidders on an item
 
This situation comes into play when three bid rounds elapse, with no player bids on the item.

In this case, the item is up for bid again, as "Open to All", and the normal bid round format continues.

If an item "Open to All" has no bidders following three rounds, then a winner is deteremined via /random ruleset.




- Furro


« Last Edit: May 10, 2009, 08:52:49 PM by Furro »

Furro

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Re: Freelance DKP & Random
« Reply #33 on: May 18, 2009, 07:11:29 PM »
  
The following modifications are in effect, and incorporated into the Hybrid DKP System.  I'm mostly clarifying sections to include the addition of item categories.  All changes are referenced in the changelog as well.


Section Changes


Terminology

Term: "Open to All" changed to "OPEN" - rephrased for clarity, no rule changes made.  Revised as:  "OPEN" -  Items tied to a category, that have gone through a first pass for distribution, where no player interest was declared.  These items are still subject to the DKP cost attached.

Term: "Regular Loot" rephrased for clarity and category association.  Revised as: "Regular Loot" items tied to the "LOOT" category, are items that count towards your loot for the night.

* Note: The terminology changes above are reflected throughout the document.



Loot Distribution States

Change: Activated hybrid state clause as follows:

* Effective: Friday, May 22, 2009 - The hybrid states portion of our DKP system is now in effect from this point forward.  If you're not familiar with our system, please click on the Loot Rules link for details.



Random Loot Ruleset

Sub-sections: Description, Stipulations, Exceptions, Random Ruleset Procedure, Disclaimer[/b]

Description: Rephrased for clarity, no rule changes made - When in this state, all applicable category items are distributed via Random 1000 Ruleset.  Highest number wins; with one random per item, per "Real Life" person; and limited to one item win a night.

Stipulations: Amendments and rephrased for clarity, no rule changes made.
  • AUG and LOOT categorized items, are subject to the DKP cost attached, which is deducted from the winners Current DKP holdings.

    
  • OPEN items tied to a category, are subject to the DKP cost attached, which is deducted from the winners Current DKP holdings.
Exceptions: "OPEN" items still count as your item in that category for the night, and are available to anyone, including prior winners.

Random Ruleset Procedure: Category amendment within the procedure.  No changes to ruleset.

Disclaimer: Rephrased for clarity as follows - Any category items being distributed in this fashion are done so on a per item basis.  Any item that does not fall under the Random 1000 Ruleset is made clear at the time of distribution.  These items are most likely, but not always, covered in the Miscellaneous Items section.



DKP Loot Ruleset

Sub-sections: Description, Stipulations, Exceptions, Bid War Procedure, Disclaimer

Description: Amended and rephrased for clarity, no rule changes made.  -- When in this state, all applicable category items are distributed via DKP Loot Ruleset.

Stipulations: Amended and rephrased for clarity, no rule changes made.
  • LOOT categorized items, are subject to the DKP cost attached, which is deducted from the winners Current DKP holdings.

    
  • OPEN items tied to a category, are subject to the DKP cost attached, which is deducted from the winners Current DKP holdings.
Exceptions: "OPEN" items still count as your item in that category for the night, and are available to anyone, including prior winners.

Bid War Procedure: Category amendment within the procedure.  No changes to ruleset.

Disclaimer: Rephrased for clarity as follows - Any category items being distributed in this fashion are done so on a per item basis.  Any item that does not fall under the DKP Loot Ruleset is made clear at the time of distribution.  These items are most likely, but not always, covered in the Miscellaneous Items section.



Miscellaneous Items - Rephrased for clarity, and category tags added.  

Changes as follows:

This section covers category and non-category items distributed via normal Random 1000 Ruleset.

      1       2       3       3      
ITEM        CATEGORY        
AugmentationAUG
Rune for spell / melee discRUNE
Progression FlagN/A
Key-Type ItemN/A
Note: Any item listed here is subject to change.  N/A denotes Not Applicable.



Section Addition

Item Categories

The purpose here is to categorize items dropped on Freelance raids for distribution, and incorporate the second pass clause "OPEN" more effectively.  There are no changes to the rules associated with items.  Each "Real Life" person is allowed to participate, winning one AUG, LOOT and RUNE item per night.  "OPEN" items still count as your item in that category for the night, and are available to anyone, including prior winners.

Incorporated into the document, as follows: Items categorized in this section, fall within the confines of the Freelance Hybrid DKP System.  Each "Real Life" person is allowed to participate, winning one AUG, LOOT and RUNE item per night.  "OPEN" items still count as your item in that category for the night, and are available to anyone, including prior winners.


   1       2       ]3       ]
CATEGORY         DEFINITION         RULESET          DKP BASE
AUGAugmentation ItemRandom 1000      
10
LOOTRegular Loot ItemRandom 1000 or DKP      
10
RUNESpell / Melee DiscRandom 1000      
0


Examples not included:

Example, 1st pass on item:  ./random 1k on < item_link > - AUG
Example, 2nd pass on item: ./random 1k on < item_link > - AUG OPEN



TODO List:

May change main section titles to avoid confusion as to LOOT categories and the term 'loot' within the titles. ie:

      1       1       1      
SECTION        POTENTIAL RENAME        
Loot Distribution StatesItem Distribution States
Random Loot RulesetRandom 1000 Ruleset
DKP Loot RulesetDKP Ruleset

« Last Edit: May 18, 2009, 10:47:43 PM by Furro »

Furro

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Re: Freelance DKP & Random
« Reply #34 on: May 21, 2009, 08:23:01 PM »
  
Updated the main site pages to reflect the recent changes outlined.

In addition, made the following document adjustments to section titles as outlined below:

      1       11       1      
OLD NAME        NEW NAME        
Loot Distribution StatesItem Distribution States
Loot Distribution States ProcedureItem Distribution States Procedure
Random Loot RulesetRandom 1000 Ruleset
DKP Loot RulesetDKP Ruleset


« Last Edit: May 21, 2009, 08:37:33 PM by Furro »

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Re: Freelance DKP & Random
« Reply #35 on: June 01, 2009, 12:00:36 AM »
  
Quoting this from the main page update:

Quote
DKP spending is going to be monitored during raids.  I've added onto my loot spreadsheet to pull DKP data, and subtract purchases as they are made.  This will also include winnings while in Random Ruleset.  This will enable an accurate picture of someones Current DKP throughout the raid night.

The issue with the running tally however, is the FLDKP database will not reflect the changes, and the FLBoT pulls the info from this database.  So for example, someone may start the raid at 20 DKP, win an item via Random, and want to bid later on some item of interest.  When that person queries the database, it shows 20 DKP still.  In fact, their actual Current DKP is 10.  Anyone who bids, I check their actual bidding power via my running tally spreadsheet.  I'm working on a way to for the bot to pull actual current DKP from the tally.  In the meantime, be aware and subtract your winnings from your current DKP.


I'll shorten the wording down and add this into the document sometime this week hopefully.  There's no change to how DKP is being done here, it's just related to DKP spending during raids, and the tracking of it.


DKP TODO:

- Add N/A to the Item Category table to identify items not associated with any costs.



« Last Edit: June 01, 2009, 12:01:58 AM by Furro »

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Re: Freelance DKP & Random
« Reply #36 on: June 15, 2009, 03:11:13 AM »
  
Updated the main site and relevent pages to reflect the recent changes outlined.  


Quote
 

Item Categories

Items categorized in this section, fall within the confines of the Freelance Hybrid DKP System.  Each "Real Life" person is allowed to participate, winning one AUG, LOOT and RUNE item per night.  "OPEN" items still count as your item in that category for the night, and are available to anyone, including prior winners.

   1       2       ]3       ]3       ]
CATEGORY         DEFINITION         RULESET          DKP BASE
AUGAugmentation ItemRandom 1000      
10
LOOTRegular Loot ItemRandom 1000 or DKP      
10
RUNESpell / Melee DiscRandom 1000      
0
N/AMiscellaneous ItemsRandom 1000      
0



- Added N/A Category to the above.  Updated the relevent areas.



DKP Tax Section

Added:

* Important: Tax is not in effect at this time.  We're still in the early stages of this DKP system, and having tax in place as we're seeding the system is counter productive.  We may need to tweak with the tax rate also, but for now numbers are needed in the system to see how everything works out.



DKP Gain & Loss Section


Quote

DKP Gain & Loss

This area explains the factors that relate to earning and spending DKP.


Dynamic DKP Earning

DKP is earned based on the total value of loot distributed, divided by the average number of attendees, on a per event or target basis.

Formula: [ bounty_total / raid_attendance ]

Note:  bounty_total is dynamic, that means constantly changing.  Covered in section below under 'Dynamic DKP Spending'  with fixed minimum opening bid value per item.

All totals rounded to the nearest whole number.

Example 1:

Bounty Total: 500 DKP
Max minimum Bounty Total: 40 DKP (that's 10 DKP per item, 4 items)

Raid Attendance: 35
Win DKP Earned: 14
Fail DKP Earned: 1

Fail calculation:

= (40/35)
=  1.14


Changed: "average" to "total", in the above quoted area, highlighted in red.
Added: ', on a per event or target basis', highlighted as green above.

Reason: Average requires multiple DKP checks during an event.  This isn't feasible for me, and at some point early into the DKP calculating I stopped using averages and switched to total attendees.  It didn't affect anything, since our DKP gains were so tiny, everything was working out to 1 DKP basically.  However, I want this in place now, especially with loot states in full effect, to avoid future clarity issues.

- Changed wording in Terminology section, for term: 'Raid Attendance', relates to above change.


Raid Attendance Section:


This is mostly a clarity adjustment.  Related to the above earnings change.


Quote


Raid Attendance Procedure

Each person's raid attendance, is the determining factor as to whether they earn DKP and the amount for any particular raid.

Raid Attendance checks are done twice:  At the start and finish.

To receive full DKP earnings, you must be in attendance for the entire raid.  That means, from start to finish.

Missing any of the two checks for raid attendance, results in half earnings for that particular raid.


Changed to:

Raid Attendance Procedure

Each person's raid attendance, is the determining factor as to whether they earn DKP and the amount for any particular raid.


DKP Check Procedure

  • At start - when clearing trash, and/or prepping for an event or target.
  • At event or target engage.
  • At finish - when raid is done for the night.
Note:  Start/Finish checks are always 1 DKP.


« Last Edit: June 15, 2009, 03:36:19 AM by Furro »

roarecho

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Re: Freelance DKP & Random
« Reply #37 on: June 15, 2009, 02:19:49 PM »
hey, raids have been going great and the system is evolving nicely

a couple points i want to bring up though so here comes my rant

one, peeps need to start bidding /randoming on items a small upgrade is better than nothing

two, anyway we can speed up the loot distribution ?

some ways to do that , begining of raid , all who want runes roll .. make list and have thr runes predistributed.

calling for loot rolls, can we go random on item X , item X closed ,, no last call

ffa ( loot  and aug ) items should have a min dkp associated ,, say 4 dkp

dkp bidding ,, 30 second timer interval, like in chess matchs ,, player A bids ,, player B has 30 seconds to respond or Player A wins item.

raid start times ,, is there a fixed raid start time we could plan for? i thought it was 7 , but it seems things are going by then now


Furro

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Re: Freelance DKP & Random
« Reply #38 on: June 19, 2009, 05:10:28 PM »
  

Quote
hey, raids have been going great and the system is evolving nicely

a couple points i want to bring up though so here comes my rant

one, peeps need to start bidding /randoming on items a small upgrade is better than nothing

I agree, small upgrades are worth it.  I think too many people compare the drops we've been getting against SoD group gear.  With respects to the SoD visible armor, using TSS is hard to justify.  Providing the person comparing is already wearing SoD armor.  However, for those who are not, it's perfectly justified to pickup a decent interim item in the meantime.  

I fully expected non-visible FC/AG items to be of value still for many.  Especially rings/ears and augments.  The entire point of doing FC/AG is to gear en masse.  Spreading alot of items, even of minor upgrades, over as many people as possible, yields greater overall power gains for Freelance as a force.



Quote
two, anyway we can speed up the loot distribution ?

some ways to do that , begining of raid , all who want runes roll .. make list and have thr runes predistributed.


I track the loot, and make adjustments.   The rune demand is temporary.  I've already lowered their category to reflect lower demand.  Even with them at N/A OPEN atm, it saved us time last weekend, not having to do two passes (from /ran, one per, to open right away).  Once they reach the FFA point, that will shave more time off our loot distribution.

The issue I see with ./ran lists are they're done at the beginning of the raid. Therefore, any late comers are locked out of the list.  At least with ./ran, aside from demand aspects, someone can arrive later in the raid and still walk away with something of value to them.  It's important we spread the loot around evenly.


Quote
calling for loot rolls, can we go random on item X , item X closed ,, no last call


The purpose of Last call is to draw attention to those who may have missed the initial ./ran message for whatever reason.  The thing is, it wouldn't actually shorten the ./ran that much, as I try and do ./ran, last call, and ./close within under a minute.  Sometimes I expedite it, when there's clearly no interest in the item.  I try and maintain at least a 10-15 second interval between each call to account for lag etc.

I'm reluctant to remove the last call at this point.  I feel more comfortable with a warning system in place before I do ./closings.  This is more of a CYA angle for me, for example: someone thinking I closed a ./ran after I saw a friend with a high ./ran.  At least the "Last call" is there with a delay after to give someone a chance still before the ./close 10 seconds or so later.


Quote
ffa ( loot  and aug ) items should have a min dkp associated ,, say 4 dkp


This was brought up a few weeks ago by Bumkus I believe also, on a related spin.  The issue he raised was in regards to class specific items, and only one class in attendance.  The person in question could simply wait for the process to reach FFA, knowing no one would be able to bid/ran because of the lack of other classes.  Therefore, they would win the item by default for free.

Class specific items are rare now, at least beyond TSS.  However, with the content we're doing there are still a few lingering.  Fortunately the instances of single class/items present have been rare, and I chalk it up as luck,  that the person was in attendance and obtained a freebie in that respect.

Imposing a blanket FFA DKP hit promotes a reluctance to loot anything FFA, solely because of the associated cost (even if the item is a minor upgrade).  I realize one could counter point with "if it was an upgrade, they should have bid/ran'd for it".  Although true, I don't feel we should be taxing people for looting rot items.  I'm sure those who pickup FFA drops are gaining, and as a result we are also, in overall power.  If they pickup a few freebies, and contribute better as a result, they'll eventually be paying for future upgrades that are in greater demand.

This issue I believe will pan out as we progress beyond TSS.  I'm open to discussing it further if needed.


Quote
dkp bidding ,, 30 second timer interval, like in chess matchs ,, player A bids ,, player B has 30 seconds to respond or Player A wins item.

This is actually how the procedure is at the moment.  There is a 30 second bid window.  The moment someone bids, the window is reset.  This is to counter those who try and wait until the last second to bid.

As a side note, there is a closing bid procedure (going once, twice, closed).  I've been tweaking this and reducing the windows between each.  Something in the range of 10-15 seconds should be sufficient.


Expediting loot distribution is something I'm always conscious of during raids.  Ideally, I'd like loot to be done within a 5-8 minute window.  Those who are not bidding/randoming should be directed towards the next target and prepping.  However, this isn't always possible.  I've been trying to address this issue, by seeking out others to fill authority roles which would help alleviate these slowdowns.


Quote
raid start times ,, is there a fixed raid start time we could plan for? i thought it was 7 , but it seems things are going by then now


7pm EST, 6pm CST, 4pm PST are the times.  This is another area of late that I'm trying to pickup the slack on.  I've been pushing ahead regardless of our current numbers in FLRaids the last week or so.  My goal is to be inside the instance by 7:30 PM EST.  Last weekend, I reached that on Friday/Saturday.

People should be aware, I do DKP checks when we start inside the instance.  Therefore, it pays to be on time imo.


« Last Edit: June 19, 2009, 05:15:34 PM by Furro »

Furro

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Re: Freelance DKP & Random
« Reply #39 on: June 29, 2009, 07:00:14 PM »
  
The adjustment below is to address class specific items:

The DKP/Random procedure will be bypassed for class specific items, that fall under any category, when only one person of said class is in attendance.  The item will be categorized at that time only, by the Raid Leader, as FFA.

Reason: Apparently, there are more items beyond TBS+ content that are class specific then I had realised.  As a result, it's necessary to make this change to our hybrid system.



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Re: Freelance DKP & Random
« Reply #40 on: July 03, 2009, 02:53:33 PM »
I know my opinion may not matter at this point, but I do like the dkp option.  I use to spend a lot of time raiding year or so ago but finally just got discouraged. My dice always sucked and the only time I won appeared to be when no one else wanted what would improve my gear.  End result was that I was doing better in equipment improvements by not raiding.  

Now with the dkp system I may have a chance to actually get some decent gear.

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Re: Freelance DKP & Random
« Reply #41 on: August 21, 2009, 07:57:11 PM »
  
Minor tweaks relating to the item distribution procedure when either random/dkp rulesets are used.

Reasons:  To help expedite the distribution process, and reduce workload of person delegating loot.

Quote
 
Random 1000 Ruleset

Random Process Format:

./ran 1000 on < item_link >, - < category > GL!

[ approximately 30 second window for randoms ]

Last call on < item_link >, - < category >.  If you rolled at or above < highest number > send tell now!

./random CLOSED on < item_link >

Congrats < player_name > on < item_link > - < category > (their number rolled).

Random Process Completion:



Changed from: [ approximately 30 second window for randoms ]

Changed to: [ approximately 15 second window for randoms ]

Inserted timeframe interval following 'Last Call' statement: [ approximately 15 second window for randoms ]



Quote
   

DKP Ruleset

Bid War Procedure

Shown here is the bid process format, all done in /raidsay, including those bidding on items.

Taking bids on < item_link > - < category >.  Starting at 10 DKP!

[ approximately 30 second window for bids ]

< bid_amount > DKP is current high bid on < item_link > by < player_name >, GOING ONCE!

[ approximately 30 second window for additional bids ]

< bid_amount > DKP is current high bid on < item_link > by < player_name >, GOING TWICE!

[ approximately 30 second window for additional bids ]

Bidding CLOSED on < item_link > - < category >

Congrats < player_name > on < item_link > for < bid_amount > DKP!



Changed from:

< bid_amount > DKP is current high bid on < item_link > by < player_name >, GOING ONCE!
< bid_amount > DKP is current high bid on < item_link > by < player_name >, GOING TWICE!


Changed to:

< GOING [round] > at < HIGHEST DKP BID >

* where 'round' represents either 'ONCE' or 'TWICE'.

Example:  GOING ONCE at 20


Changed Bid Window Times from:

[ approximately 30 second window for bids ]
[ approximately 30 second window for additional bids ]


Changed to:

[ approximately 15 second window for bids ]
[ approximately 15 second window for additional bids ]

* This matches the same timeframe used under the 'Random Ruleset', 'Last Call' procedure.




Changelog updated:

- Adjusted timeframes and format under procedure, in sections: 'Random 1000 Ruleset', and 'DKP Ruleset'
« Last Edit: August 21, 2009, 08:36:32 PM by Furro »

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Re: Freelance DKP & Random
« Reply #42 on: June 13, 2010, 07:35:39 PM »
 

* Changelog Notes:

- Minor verbiage changes addressed below within the related process/procedural areas to reduce the amount of typing required.
- Reformatted areas for easier reading, by reducing bolded sections.



Quote
   

Random 1000 Ruleset

Random Process Format:

./ran 1000 on < item_link >, - < category > GL!

[ approximately 15 second window for randoms ]

Last call on < item_link >, - < category >.  If you rolled at or above < highest number > send tell now!

[ approximately 15 second window for randoms ]

./random CLOSED on < item_link >

Congrats < player_name > on < item_link > - < category > (their number rolled).



Changed the above to:


/ran 1000 on < item_link > - < category >, GL!

< approximately 15 second window for randoms >

Last call on < item_link > (15 seconds).

< approximately 15 second window for randoms >

./random CLOSED.

Congrats < player_name > on < item_link > (their number rolled).




Quote

DKP Ruleset

Bid War Procedure

Shown here is the bid process format, all done in /raidsay, including those bidding on items.

Taking bids on < item_link > - < category >.  Starting at 10 DKP!

[ approximately 15 second window for bids ]

< GOING ONCE > at < HIGHEST DKP BID >

[ approximately 15 second window for additional bids ]

< GOING TWICE > at < HIGHEST DKP BID >

[ approximately 15 second window for additional bids ]

Bidding CLOSED on < item_link > - < category >

Congrats < player_name > on < item_link > for < bid_amount > DKP!


Ties Between Bidders


Tied bids are resolved via Random 1000 Ruleset, between the tied bidders.  The item cost used is the tied bid value.

Tied Bidders Format:

Tied Maximum Bids! - ONLY: < player_names >, /random 1000 now on < item_link > for < tied_bid_value > DKP!

Last call (tied bidders only) on < item_link >, for < tied_bid_value > DKP!

./random CLOSED on < item_link >

Congrats < player_name > on < item_link > for  < tied_bid_value > DKP.


Changed the above to:


Shown here is the bid process format, all done in /raidsay, including those bidding on items. 

Taking bids on < item_link > - < category >.   Starting at 10 DKP!

< approximately 15 second window for bids >

< GOING ONCE > at < HIGHEST DKP BID >

< approximately 15 second window for additional bids >

< GOING TWICE > at < HIGHEST DKP BID >

< approximately 15 second window for additional bids >

Bidding CLOSED.

Congrats < player_name > on < item_link > for < bid_amount > DKP!


Ties Between Bidders

Tied bids are resolved via Random 1000 Ruleset, between the tied bidders.  The item cost used is the tied bid value.

Tied Bidders Format:

Tied Maximum Bids! - ONLY: < player_names >, /random 1000 now on < item_link > for < tied_bid_value > DKP!

Last call (tied bidders only) on < item_link >, for < tied_bid_value > DKP!

./random CLOSED

Congrats < player_name > on < item_link > for  < tied_bid_value > DKP.

« Last Edit: June 13, 2010, 07:54:43 PM by Furro »

Furro

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Re: Freelance DKP & Random
« Reply #43 on: November 17, 2010, 06:27:38 PM »
 
Loot System Changes

In order to aid in our progression efforts and strengthen us as a team, several changes/adjustements to the Freelance Loot System are necessary.


Overview

This is a brief overview, with details covered further below.

  • 5 DKP cost associated with all RUNE Category items (Spell / Melee Discs).
  • Key/Flag distribution via Random 1000, but limited to players with 20% Raid Attendance (based on Last 90 Days).
  • Item Distribution State determination based on 70/30 (DKP/Random) odds.
  • Weapon Trade-In option incorporated into LOOT OPEN category Items, regardless of EQ Character Class restrictions.
Details

Since these changes affect the Loot System, they must be documented.  This is the detail section of those changes.


FLDKP Database:

Trash table AUGs were being tracked in zero value DKP raids, tied to zones where the target raid event took place.  The problem of course, is these entries skewed Raid Attendance.

The solution was to re-enter the augs into raid events near the time they were looted, and ensure the player was in attendance first before doing the entry.  Each zero value DKP raid was then deleted afterwards.  This was a database change only, and no individual players DKP was altered/adjusted in the process. 

* Be aware: Trash table AUGs are NOT part of the chest bounty for an event, and therefore not taken into consideration when determining DKP earnings for said raid event.  The entries for Trash AUGs is merely for tracking purposes because they have an associated cost.


FL Site & Forum Loot Pages:

- Updated Loot sections on main FL site
- Updated Forum Loot System sticky posts
- Scheduled events posts updated (tables/etc).


FLBot Changes:

- DKP requests will now include RA% in response.



Quote
   

Item Distribution States

Freelances item distribution system has two states:  Random and DKP.  The state used at any given time is determined via random chance, with equal odds of it being either DKP or Random ruleset.


Changed above to:

Freelances item distribution system has two states:  Random and DKP.  The state used at any given time is determined via random chance, with odds of it being either DKP or Random ruleset.



Quote

Item Distribution State Procedure

Prior to distributing each loot bounty, the Raid Leader will issue a /random 1000.

A /random 1000 result greater than or equal to 500 will use DKP ruleset.
A /random 1000 result less than 500 will use normal /random 1000 ruleset.


Changed above to:

A /random 1000 result greater than or equal to 300 will use DKP ruleset.
A /random 1000 result less than 300 will use normal /random 1000 ruleset.



Quote
Item Categories

Items categorized in this section, fall within the confines of the Freelance Hybrid DKP System.  Each "Real Life" person is allowed to participate, winning one AUG, LOOT and RUNE item per night.  "OPEN" items still count as your item in that category for the night, and are available to anyone, including prior winners.


12]3]3]
CATEGORY         DEFINITION         RULESET          DKP BASE
AUGAugmentation ItemRandom 1000      
10
LOOTRegular Loot ItemRandom 1000 or DKP      
10
RUNESpell / Melee DiscRandom 1000      
0
N/AMiscellaneous ItemsRandom 1000      
0



Changed above to:


12]3]3]
CATEGORY         DEFINITION         RULESET          DKP BASE
AUGAugmentation ItemRandom 1000      
10
LOOTRegular Loot ItemRandom 1000 or DKP      
10
RUNESpell / Melee DiscRandom 1000      
5
N/AMiscellaneous ItemsRandom 1000 & Raid Attendance      
0


Quote
Random 1000 Ruleset

Stipulations

The following conditions are in play during the random ruleset:
  • Strict /random format 0 - 1000
  • One /random per item, per "Real Life" person
  • One item win a night
  • AUG and LOOT categorized items, are subject to the DKP cost attached, which is deducted from the winners Current DKP holdings.
  • OPEN items tied to a category, are subject to the DKP cost attached, which is deducted from the winners Current DKP holdings.

N/A addition to Stipulations section required, as Key/Flag items fall under this category.

Changed above to:

Stipulations

The following conditions are in play during the random ruleset:
  • Strict /random format 0 - 1000
  • One /random per item, per "Real Life" person
  • One item win a night
  • AUG and LOOT categorized items, are subject to the DKP cost attached, which is deducted from the winners Current DKP holdings.
  • N/A items may be subject to a Raid Attendance factor to determine eligibility for random.
  • OPEN items tied to a category, are subject to the DKP cost attached, which is deducted from the winners Current DKP holdings.
  • Items available for NPC Trade-In are distributed in the following order: LOOT, LOOT OPEN, LOOT OPEN (Classes: ALL).  These items are subject to the DKP cost attached, which is deducted from the winners Current DKP holdings.


Quote
DKP Ruleset


Stipulations

The following conditions are in play during the DKP ruleset:
  • Strict Bid War format
  • One bidder only, per "Real Life" person (no bidding on multiple boxed characters).
  • One item win a night, per "Real Life" person.
  • LOOT categorized items, are subject to the DKP cost attached, which is deducted from the winners Current DKP holdings.
  • OPEN items tied to a category, are subject to the DKP cost attached, which is deducted from the winners Current DKP holdings.

Changed above to:

The following conditions are in play during the DKP ruleset:
  • Strict Bid War format
  • One bidder only, per "Real Life" person (no bidding on multiple boxed characters).
  • One item win a night, per "Real Life" person.
  • LOOT categorized items, are subject to the DKP cost attached, which is deducted from the winners Current DKP holdings.
  • OPEN items tied to a category, are subject to the DKP cost attached, which is deducted from the winners Current DKP holdings.
  • Items available for NPC Trade-In are distributed in the following order: LOOT, LOOT OPEN, LOOT OPEN (Classes: ALL).  These items are subject to the DKP cost attached, which is deducted from the winners Current DKP holdings.


CHANGELOG:

Tracking revisions here as usual.

- Item Distribution States changed from 50/50, to 70/30.
- Item Distribution State Procedure changed to reflect 70/30 adjustment
- Changed section Item Categories, table item Miscellaneous Item, added RA factor.
- Changed section Random 1000 Ruleset, sub-section Stipulations, added N/A items reference to factor in RA
- Changed section Random 1000 Ruleset, sub-section Stipulations, added NPC Trade-In procedure
- Changed section DKP Ruleset, sub-section Stipulations, added NPC Trade-In procedure


Furro

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Re: Freelance DKP & Random
« Reply #44 on: December 21, 2010, 07:34:15 PM »
 

Tie Bids
 
This is a rule change.

Change: Tie or Matched Bids are ONLY permitted when an individual's current DKP holdings are equal to the current bid at the time.

Reasons:

Tie bids are delaying the loot distribution process considerably when it occurs.

The main reason I kept ties in, was to maintain DKP purchasing power, regardless of current DKP holdings.  Without the use of exception clause(s), the easiest way to accomplish this was to allow tie bids.

Conclusion:

A "No Tie Bid" rule can work, as long as there is an exception clause in place to maintain DKP purchasing power.  The tactical loss of tie bids is minimal as far as I'm concerned, and not worth delaying the raid with a lengthy tie process, and random resolution.


For those interested, here's an example of DKP holdings affecting purchasing power I wrote up over a year ago while discussing this very issue internally:

Quoted Example:

Quote
 

DKP Holdings, doesn't reflect purchasing power:


Player_B has 16 Current DKP
Player_C has 15 Current DKP


Current high bid is 15 DKP by Player_B


Player_C wants to opt in, but if we don't allow tie bids, he cannot bid at all.

Although the player may have 15 DKP, its purchasing power is not 15 DKP.  In this situation, he'd need 16 DKP just for a chance to bid on the item valued at 15 DKP currently.   Is it fair, that an item valued at 15 DKP, is not purchasable, by someone with 15 DKP?

Player_C loses the bid, because he didn't have 16 DKP to bid with.  Player_B won, only because he chose to risk 15 DKP.


Using example above, with our current ruleset:

Player_C bids 15 DKP (all in!)
Player_B bids 16 DKP and wins.

I fail to see how spending 1 more DKP, is a hardship in this situation.  At least it gave the person with 15 DKP, a chance at spending his DKP on something of value to him.

Anyone who feels jaded by someone matching their bids, should utilize their DKP purchasing power more aggressively in my opinion.  If someone is trying to muscle me out of an item I want, I'll keep outbidding that person, until either I win; or reach my "personal limit".

That's what it comes down to btw.  Personal limits.  Most people set some sorta upper limit, as to how high they're willing to go.  It's their choice.  I don't feel people should get upset because someone else happens to have set the same limits.

Keep in mind also, those who "match" or "tie" bids, are risking the same amount of DKP.  They can't bid with DKP they don't have.


Quote
 

Players with equal Current DKP holdings

Fairly self explanatory.  It's not to say the outcome wouldn't be the same (random), but we'd need a rule to address it at the very least.

Example:

Player_A has 15 DKP
Player_B has 15 DKP


Both players bid and reach their ceiling.  It goes to /random.



Sections of the document must be modified to allow for this change.  All related pages on the main site must also be changed.


Quote
   

DKP Ruleset


Stipulations

The following conditions are in play during the DKP ruleset:
  • Strict Bid War format

   
  • One bidder only, per "Real Life" person (no bidding on multiple boxed characters).

   
  • One item win a night, per "Real Life" person.

   
  • LOOT categorized items, are subject to the DKP cost attached, which is deducted from the winners Current DKP holdings.

   
  • OPEN items tied to a category, are subject to the DKP cost attached, which is deducted from the winners Current DKP holdings.

   
  • Items available for NPC Trade-In are distributed in the following order: LOOT, LOOT OPEN, LOOT OPEN (Classes: ALL).  These items are subject to the DKP cost attached, which is deducted from the winners Current DKP holdings.



Addition to the above 'Stipulations' sub-section:

Tie or Matched Bids are ONLY permitted when an individual's current DKP holdings are equal to the current bid at the time.



Quote
   
Ties Between Bidders
 
Tied bids are resolved via Random 1000 Ruleset, between the tied bidders.  The item cost used is the tied bid value.

Tied Bidders Format:

Tied Maximum Bids! - ONLY: < player_names >, /random 1000 now on < item_link > for < tied_bid_value > DKP!

Last call (tied bidders only) on < item_link >, for < tied_bid_value > DKP!

./random CLOSED.

Congrats < player_name > on < item_link > for  < tied_bid_value > DKP.

No change required here.  This process is still needed if/when Tie Bids occur and triggered by our exception clause.



N/A Category
 
This isn't a rule change.

We categorize Key/Flag items as N/A.  N/A items inherit the guidelines associated with the ruleset used at the time of distribution.  However, there's no reference to this association in the document, which can potentially lead to a misunderstanding or unfair item distribution.

To resolve this issue, the 'Item Category' description area must be changed to include N/A.  All other areas of reference must also be changed.


Quote
   

Item Categories

Items categorized in this section, fall within the confines of the Freelance Hybrid DKP System.  Each "Real Life" person is allowed to participate, winning one AUG, LOOT and RUNE item per night.  "OPEN" items still count as your item in that category for the night, and are available to anyone, including prior winners.


Changed the above description to:

Items categorized in this section, fall within the confines of the Freelance Hybrid DKP System.  Each "Real Life" person is allowed to participate, winning one AUG, LOOT, RUNE, and NA item per night.  "OPEN" items still count as your item in that category for the night, and are available to anyone, including prior winners.


Quote
   

Miscellaneous Items

Items that spawn instances; unlock doors; and/or otherwise required for raid functionality are distributed to the Raid Leader, or those with Raid Authority.
  • Progression Flags
  • Key-Type Items

Changed the above to:


Progression Items

Progression items such as Key/Flags are distributed via the N/A category.  N/A items inherit the guidelines associated with the ruleset used at the time of distribution.


Special Case Items

Items that spawn instances; unlock doors; and/or otherwise required for raid functionality are distributed to the Raid Leader, or those with Raid Authority.



CHANGELOG:

- Added "No Tie Bids" to DKP system, related Stipulations sub-section, altered to reflect change.
- N/A inheritance reference to 'Item Category' description
- Fixed wording in the 'Miscellaneous Items' section for clarity.


« Last Edit: December 21, 2010, 07:35:36 PM by Furro »